I feel that she had beefs against people. Urban Sabateur comes to mind. Trying to incite a riot??? c'mon... Rich comes off w/o tact but he's trying to convey something. Jay left. Phu left. Where's Sephron13? THose 3 names come to mind and the 1st two, they told me why they left.

The situation could have been handled better. Your long winded lecture Ender just proves my point about the level of maturity on this site. In fact, the "running" comment is quite amusing. You really are quite emotional when it comes to this. Why? I wonder. Anyway, you all have your opinions and I have mine. Pru has been nicer to me than any of you guys ever were. Whether she was rude, obnoxious, mean or otherwise; she still is a woman who tried!! Nobody is perfect. The lesson I'm trying to get across is that people make mistakes. I think i found everything out I needed to know about this site and the folks who run it. This is my last entry for good. I will never view this site again. You all have quite the clique going on here. Fortunately, I don't want to be a member. Nice knowing ya!!! Russ Spencer

Yes, she did try, and I place a lot of value in that. I will often give people the benefit of the doubt on situations because they stepped up to the plate, as Prudence did.

That doesn't mean I can ignore repeated incidents, though. Good intentions aside, Prudence was a magnet for controversy, the opposite of what I need in a Moderator. A moderator is supposed to moderate controversies, not initiate them. Her goal was a good one, but her methods stirred a lot of people up.

As to your original point, I never heard of anyone calling Prudence names. I never saw it and no one ever told me about it. If I had, I would have taken action.

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The situation could have been handled better? Ok...how? She had been warned by Mr. Fel not two to three weeks earlier about her out of control behvior on the religion thread. Has anyone had to give Graham even one warning? nope! Then she goes in, changes everything (making the forums a nightmare to navigate anymore) and then starts threatening people who question WHY she did it.

As for me.....Long winded? Guilty.Immature? Hmmm. I'm stating facts. I'm not the one calling people out like this is some honor thing on a schoolyard. Am I getting emotional?

Let me ask this....to everyone on Joe Dios;

does anyone else here besides RDS13601 think any of my responses have been emotional?

better yet;


"Can anyone here provide a thread, link, or IM where anyone called Prudence a B*TCH or disrespected her"

Sorry I had to ask that because I'm so immature and childish I listen to facts.

If anything I have tried to be the borg here and be totally unemotional. Yeah, it's hard for me to sit here and have someone tell me "You guys called her this and you guys did this" When I know better. I asked you after your first post to show ONE thread where she was disrespected through name calling and you didn't show one. NOT ONE! I KNOW! I looked. You claim to think she was wronged, yet I've done more work to prove to everyone here she was wronged than you, and I haven't been able to find ONE BIT of evidence.

And don't think that if I found a thread where she was called a "B*TCH" I wouldn't post it up right here and say "Damn, I was Wrong. so-and-so did call her a B*TCH. You were right." And don't think if you provide me with the link that proves me wrong STILL, I won't do the SAME THING! I'll back Prudence 100% if you can find one instance where someone called her the name you have claimed since your first thread someone called her. The reason this is eating at me so bad, is because if it did happen, I'd be pissed at the one who did it! But the only time I remember the word being brought up was when she would get all defensive and say "I know you guys think I'm Queen B*TCH around here...". Am I getting emotional here? If I am it's only because I'm actually working my @$$ off to see if what you are saying is true, searching through threads SHE screwed up looking for ONE quote, one link, anything and finding zilch. I'm doing more work to defend her and prove you right than you are and you're ATTACKING ME!

You said "The lesson I'm trying to get across is that people make mistakes" ..the lesson I'm trying to get across here is the mistakes Prudence made showed that she was unfit to moderate on this site. Not because she was a Woman, not because she ticked off some of the Old Guard, but because she was hard headed and took constructive criticism as a personal attack on her character, then used her powers to threaten and ban and basically run the site the way SHE wanted to. And not once, not twice but numerous times!

What did you find out about this site and the folks who run it? That the people here agree we are community and when one person comes in and starts abusing power and doesn't listen to reason and takes critism personally that we're gonna take it and cower like children in a corner? You found out what you wanted to find out.....when you get bullheaded and don't wanna listen and wanna throw around wild half-@$$ed assumptions and far fetched accusations with no proof to back it up, people here don't take you seriously. I'll debate you all night long, but this is really a one way conversation going nowhere, because no one ever called Prudence a B*TCH, it was only her persecution complex and no matter what we say, We're wrong and we picked on Prudence. Admit it. No matter what I say, no matter how long winded I am, no matter what evidence I provide, you're gonna believe we ganged up on Prudence because she's a woman or because we don't like her or whatever.

And what the heck do you mean by "You really are quite emotional when it comes to this. Why? I wonder." Do you know someting I don't? Obviously! You seem to know all about the times people abused and disrespected Prudence that no one else here knows about.

Russ, honestly, I do hate to see you go and especially so because obviously someone here twisted and skewed your opinion of us so bad that you can't listen to facts and reason and believe that with NO evidence, we are a big bunch of haters and conspirators that just waited until the little girl had a chance at bat and then all ganged up on her. But hey...your choice man......dueces! I really do wish you good luck....and if you know where the link is that someone called Pru a B*TCH, tell me before you leave! Even though you think I'm with some Grand conspiracy, I'm not. I wnna find the truth. I'm getting emotional because you keep taunting me like you know where it is and you won't show me where to find it!

You know, Fel, I really hate you. You're like Edward R. Murrow, you can say in 5 words what it takes me 5 pages to say. And does that offer of taking action still stand? I've been scouring the posts for goin on 3 hours now looking for that thread..... Whether RDS13601 believes it or not, if I find evidence someone disrespected her, I'm still gonna act on it....

Even though I'm an immature windbag!

Actually guys it wasn't in a thread, at least not at first, from my memory it was a disagreement me and pru had. I remember disrespecting Pru. The thing is, we (so I thought) had made all this up.
I wanted to show my geniune sincerity for all of it, I wanted to proove that I was sorry for my name calling, I lost my head and called her a name, i sent this over MSN or maybe an email or PM.
This was quite a while back, after discussing it with a friend, I realised it didn't matter what message i was trying to get across, it really didn't matter whether or not people actually listened to my point, what mattered was that my parents didn't bring me up to treat a woman with such disrespect.
I apologised. I sent emails, I constantly sent her IM's to try and someway offer my apologies. Eventually Pru was good enough to respond and say that
"lifes too short rich'' again pru was right, but from my standpoint we'd talked on MSN and PM on Joe Dios way after that incident, so from my viewpoint all was good up until about the time the religious thread came into play, she ruffled shane's feathers, and it all kicked off again.

I came out here to say this because if I think about everything that has happened, I can only remember that time I sent those derogatory remarks, me and pru had got past this to my understanding, heck, I even sent her a UK exclusive quarrell I wanted her forgiveness and understanding that no matter what disagreements we had, we could put it past us and forget about it, since we were at joe dios, i couldnt buy her a drink, so I bought her a figure from ebay uk to bury the hatchet so to speak.

This is the only incident i can recall where I resorted to name calling, again I wasn't totally proud of it, the end product was one where it made me look stupid and idiotic and in fact childish and cowardly, i lost my focus and control on the situation and i publicly apologised. I've done some stupid things here, real stupid, if anything it should be setting an example to people of how not to react to situations.

Whatever the case, it wasn't just this one incident, If prudence has told Russ about this incident, then I guess it's only with just cause that he feels pru has been hard done by,. however i'd like to know if it is this incident, whether or not he knows that me and pru had apparently settled this along time ago.

RDS seems to be eliminating the fact that prudence didnt just ruffle my feathers a few times, there were more than enough people she had issues with, so again from the shadows what looks like people are ganging up on her., when really it seems the ultimate decisions she made without consent. Upset more people than she was letting on., I don't want russell to leave, infact there have been a few people who said they were leaving and are still here today, me included.

The facts are put in front of you russell, if you leave now without discussing them, and saying exactly what you've been told and by whom., we'll just assume then that you have a hidden agenda elsewhere?

I've asked, frank has asked you not because (we're in a clique) strangley someone else springs to mind when i hear that.. so maybe your acting on bad information? but we've asked because we want to get to the bottom of all of this, it's never been Joe Dios way to simply just let things go, Prudence still can be an important member of this community and so can you! Despite everything i even posted up my thanks for her time and so did alot of people, so did Hammerfel.

So .. don't leave without at least coming out and explaining who you've been talking to or what you've been told. I've got nothing to hide here, i've already admitted for my past behaviour and if someone else is bad mouthing me .. i'd rather hear all this from them, rather than a messenger? You understand where I'm coming from?

This shouldn't be taken to PM either, things can be ''fabricated'' on PM and hidden away, I know it doesn't look great for either person slanging in public, but we need to sort this out. If you need to talk to me anyway on MSN, go for it, just send me your MSN Handle and i'll add you. Better still urbansaboteur@hotmail.co.uk
Rich

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Regardless, of who said what to who, it doesn't matter, it is in the past, and until Russ fired up the debate again it was probably close to all but forgotten by most people.

I'm sorry that you choose to leave Russ, it's too bad that you feel the way you do. I for one have enjoyed my time on this site, I have dealt with some great people, but like life, every once in a while someone slips up or someone gets irritated with someone else, it is bound to happen. There are many different and varied personalities on this site, and this is probably one of the only boards I've seen where there is very little flaming going on and when it happens it's nipped in the bud, this is good to see.

The people that frequent Joe Dios are a good group of people, and as far as Pru is concerned, I think she tried very hard to do a good job as moderator, she just took things too personally, and it affected her judgement when doling out bans etc. It happens, these are real people here, not robots.

I look forward to continuing to be a member of this site. I also look forward to conversing with Pru, and everyone else here. It's really too bad you are choosing to miss out on a great community Russ.

....."That's just my opinion, I could be wrong." - Dennis Miller

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To wrap things up;

1.) I was wrong. Someone did disrespect Prudence once. Even though it was handled, there is evidence it happened. So I was WRONG on that count.

Id' like to thank Rich for coming out and admitting that. (And scold him for doing that!)

2.) I'm done with this thread. It has shown me what I NEED to know about people here. They will support each other and stick together. They don't hold grudges. They care more about the truth coming out than trolling for emotional responses. And Russ, if you chose not to be part of this community, I'm sorry, but in my Opinion, it's your loss!

I do think a new thread is warranted.....hmmmm.....

Mr. Fel, Graham...and anyone on here, please, if I step out of line, let me know, please?

There has been some... inquiry of why Russ is bringing this whole topic up. Am I worse mod than her? (lol)