well i love GIJOE but like all the south americans joes collectors , i have to buy what i can
i used to have ARAH as a kid and i love them O ring rules , i have a huge collection of gijoe vs cobra , ARAH ,and VvV but only a few DTC because i ONLY find them on internet , WELL im still waiting for some PRODUCTS TO ARRIVE TO MY COUNTRY , like back in 94 when ARAH was over , im not into 25th FIGURES , but maybe i will buy some vehicules .....

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En mi casa he reunido juguetes pequeños y grandes
sin los cuales no podria vivir.
El niño que no juega no es niño
pero el hombre que no juega perdio para siempre
al niño que vivia en el ..... ........Pablo Neruda

I've been griping about the 25A figures over at GoodToGo, but this thread here seems to be more fertile ground for the subject...

See, I've been outta the loop for a while, so I only recently got my hands on the 25th Anniversary figures. And may I say "argh"? I have several gripes:

1. Ratcheting joints
On larger figures, ratcheting joints are very useful (if not vital) to stability and maintaining poses. But on 1/18-scale figures, I really see no need for them. At such a small scale, the ratcheting joints mostly restrict pose options. Grr. Plus, they present real obstacles when it comes to painting. In my opinion, this is the biggest problem with the 25th figures. Sheesh!

2. Hip articulation
I know this is being revised in the later figures, but... I mean... Man, I have no idea why Hasbro tried this in the first place. To go to all the trouble of making the new figs super-articulated, and then obstruct the hips so the figs can't fit in vehicles? That's strange. It almost seems like every new GI Joe figure line is required by law to have a poseability issue that is overcome later on in the line. Swivel-arm grip, no O-ring T-crotch figures, and now funky hips. WTF?

3. Soft plastic
I think that the use of softer plastic is a great thing for *certain parts* of action figures -- especially the hands and the smaller, more more fragile parts -- but is it really necessary to make the figures entirely out of soft plastic? Several of my figures are bowlegged or otherwise warped. Darnitall.

4. Torso joint placement
I gotta admit, the inclusion of a universal joint at the junction of the rib cage and abdomen is useful... But it's not as useful, IMO, as a joint at the waist/belt line. The waist is just a more natural place for a joint, isn't it? And on the 25th figures, the joint is at a very odd place; it makes the torso seem, well, oddly shaped. Instead of having the joint follow the bottom of the rib cage, it seems to follow the bottom of the pecs. A someone said, the effect is a look of man-boobs. Ugh.

5. Backpack holes & pegs
And then there's the backpack holes thing. Some have them, some don't, and none of the back holes are compatible with oldskool backpacks. Curses!

6. Scale
I was annoyed as heck when the new Microman figures got a bit larger, but the absolute awesomeness of the figures eventually won me over. There were almost no other flaws in the new line, and whatever flaws there are, they are lesser than the flaws in previous lines. In the case of the 25A Joes, the new scale just seems obnoxious. It makes compatibility with older vehicles even more of a problem, too. Gawd!

7. Elbow range
On a lot of the figures, the elbows have a really limited range of motion. Why did Hasbro think this was a good idea? Why?!?

GOOD THINGS
Alright, I've complained a lot. But still, the new figs do have a lot going for them. They have fabulous detail in the sculpting. Mmm-mmm good! Double-jointed knees, wrist joints, ankle joints... these are all wonderful. Also, I'm personally fine with there being no O-Ring, as that was always the first piece of a figure to fail (except sometimes for a thumb). The new figs still have a T-bar inside the pelvis, but the loss of the O-Ring really doesn't bother me. Well, except for the fact that it makes the figures harder to customize and less compatible with the previous toy lines. I gotta say, though, some of the accessories have been really keen.

I guess I'm kinda spoiled by Microman figures. But all in all, the 2nd-generation Joe figures (like Spytroops and such) are probably my favorite *kind* of Joe figures ever.

Grebo!

I share everyone's pain here about the new figures (obviously -- see my previous post) but I think it's also important to understand Hasbro's POV...

1 - Fans vs Kids
Adult fans & collectors tend to think of themselves as the true driving force behind the popularity of their chosen toy line. But this is not the case. The number of monied adult fans is FAR exceeded by the number of monied parents with eager kids. These things we love are TOYS, after all, and the main market for toys is children. Ultimately, Hasbro is making toys for kids; they try to take adult fans' wishes into account as well, so as to make the most money possible, but at the end of the day the kid-aimed factors outweigh the fan-aimed factors. Basically, they're trying to have their cake and eat it too; the result is a product which doesn't really satisfy anyone fully.

2 - Focus Groups, etc
Hasbro (like any other corporation) spends tons of time and money trying to determine what their customers want, and then by committe they decide how best to make such things while at the same time spending as little money as possible. Apparently, the current trend for a lot of toy buyers -- kids included -- is display. Focus groups, market research, and the like indicate that nowadays, even kids are getting more interested in collecting and displaying rather than backyard-playing. Therefore, the look of an action figure is starting to become more important than the playability. I think this is the reason for the wierd crotches and hands and such. However, if you ask me, the figures don't really look all that nice. :-/

3 - Long-Term Plans
Much like the Transformers Classics line, I get the impression that the 25A line is a "filler" -- a placeholder until the movie-related toys come out. Once the movie hits theaters, Hasbro will probably not make any more 25A figures and instead will launch a blitz of movie-related toys with varying sizes and prices and styles. Look at the recent TF movie and its related merchandise if you want a forecast.

Anyway, the bottom line is that I am still not happy with the 25A line (except for a few figs, like Firefly, BeachHead and Zartan) either... But I know that Hasbro really just pays lip service to adult fans, and is much more concerned with kids. Me, I remain happiest with the 2nd-gen Spytroops and VvV toys.

Grebo!

Well said Grebo! You pretty well touched on all the points that make us "25th haters" angry, and you did so articulately and in depth. One point you didn't mention, but which really annoys me, is the "cartoonish" leanings of the styling, the "Sigma Sixing" of the line.......definitely not a good move. And you also covered the few good points of the line, the excellent sculpting detail and mostly great accessories.

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"The future's uncertain and the end is always near." - The Doors "Roadhouse Blues".

That rachet effect is a bi-product of the injected-molded shoulders and eblows. The figures that had them in the older line suffered from them too. Major Barrage, for example.

The "for the kids" argument is used a lot but Hasbro has said during their online Q&A sessions that the 25th line is aimed more at collectors. Someone asked about stuff like Galactic Heroes/Superhero Squad-style figures and their response was along the lines of, "If the success of the brand leads us to shift the focus away from a collector-targeted line we may consider such things when playability and the desires of children would be more important."

I do find it hard to believe that the majority of collectors wanted them to do a line that was largely incompatible with anyone's existing collection. Sure, people are OK with them now they're out with quite a lot of "Well, it's GI Joe and I'll buy it if that's all they're going to offer," but I bet next to nobody would have chosen for things to be like this in advance!

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Come check out my Flickr account for more pics of my collection and additional shots from my JoeDios photoshoots. Includes my "Class Reunion" and "Foes Of The Joes" sets, exclusive to Flickr!

Last updated 2/5/10.

Oh, and it's good to see you back, greboguru! I might restart that Dream Team dio-story idea of mine if one of the more vocal supporters is around again...!

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* * * * *
Come check out my Flickr account for more pics of my collection and additional shots from my JoeDios photoshoots. Includes my "Class Reunion" and "Foes Of The Joes" sets, exclusive to Flickr!

Last updated 2/5/10.

Thanks, Stormer. Yeah, man, do the Dream Team dio! I've wanting that to be fully realized for a while now.

Grebo

I know Hasbro has said that the 25th Anniv. stuff is aimed at collectors, but it just isn't the truth. The reproduction packaging is aimed at collectors, but that's about it. Hasbro can't make money selling figures to a few thousand adult collectors. Its just not economically viable. Hasbro probably has to sell something like 50,000 figures of a given mold to make any profit. There just isn't 50,000 adult collectors out there, and Hasbro isn't going to produce figures knowing they will take a monetary loss. Its a business.

They may tell us, that we're the target audience, but it just ain't true.