JoeDios.com Forums - should hasbro bring back the o-ring???

Differing views

05-30-2008, 01:25 PM	#51
Urban Saboteur Legendary Saboteur Offline --> Posts: 2,138 --> Join Date: Apr 2007	Differing views You should probably both accept you have differing views on it and move on.. __________________ My Sites Eternity Toys Superiorville Toy blog Urban Saboteur Stories Social Sites & Communities Facebook Flickr Tweet Me

05-30-2008, 03:09 PM

#52

haradrel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Outrider

So, your opinions are fact, and mine are just opinions....well go figure! Guess I must have been mistaken all along. No constructive criticism? I would have thought pointing out their faults is just that. "25th sux" is what I call non constructive criticism. And didn't I read somewhere in your first post a line about not disrespecting other people's views?

No - I pointed out which were facts and which were opinions quite clearly. - The scale and poseability.
The rest are up for debate - I strongly feel that the 25th are more rigid and prone to not breaking as the original line was with crotches and thumbs (for example).

I do see your point - but it actually is a fact that they are a closer scale - I can speak from 3 years of experience at art school for that one.
And I still think they offer a lot more poseability then the originals - but as Urban Saboteur pointed out this might be up for debate - Though I'll address that issue later and show why more points of articulation gives better poseability.

My point was not that your criticisms here was non-constructive - quite the opposite - but that in general we get a lot of bashing for the 25th line even in places where it shouldn't be.

I never disrespected your views, in fact I agreed with most of them and even said that I respected your point of view because you came from a background of collecting joes over time. Respect mine please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Saboteur

You should probably both accept you have differing views on it and move on..

Its still civil

I will however agree to disagree if something gets to heated and leave it at that - right now we seem to be having a difference in taste is all.

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Just to clarify..

05-30-2008, 04:37 PM	#53
Urban Saboteur Legendary Saboteur Offline --> Posts: 2,138 --> Join Date: Apr 2007	Just to clarify.. Oh and to clarify.. i posted to try and humble the convo.. i wasn't attempting to throw my weight around.. truth is i dont think i could take another man/joe drama __________________ My Sites Eternity Toys Superiorville Toy blog Urban Saboteur Stories Social Sites & Communities Facebook Flickr Tweet Me

05-30-2008, 07:40 PM	#54
Sonneilon aka 'Paul WS Anderson' ;) Offline --> Posts: 7,751 --> Join Date: Jul 2005	Good call, Rich. I'm not in the mood for another drama/fight to break out. I think it gets old when people are constantly bashing the 25th. You don't see me bashing the ARAH or the folks who want ARAH back. Cuz I DON'T want to see those molds again. This is, of course, a guy who keeps ARAH in his memories and the Bastard Era were the bomb. The 25A, it's funny, I really can't recommend the line to friends. I cite that there are a few good figures and I don't know if there are more misses than hits (or vice versa). I do know that Craig bought the 1st 2 5-packs and therein lies most of his opinions. This is how I see it (hope Craig doesn't mind) Generalities. -The figures can't look up or down very well (bastard era had that problem too). -Some figures have special sculpted hands which means different weapons don't work in them (ARAH had this too at times). -The redux of outfits (Even tho this might be following the SW/TF idealogy) -size variance. Doesn't fit in with the other eras (yet, maybe they aren't supposed to be mixed. ) -Lack of ability to sit down (tho it's been fixed for the most part) Specifics. -Duke's arms can't bend worth crap (unless you cut the bicep). -Roadblock has skinny legs, lack of arm articulation and a goofy left hand. -Gung Ho has lack of arm articulation and looks kinda like someone else. -Scarlet, I'm not sure. -Snake Eyes, not sure how Craig can complain. -Cobra Commander has a closed fist? -Destro's a tad thin? -Cobra Trooper, not sure how Craig can complain. -Baroness... We won't even go there. -Storm Shadow, not sure what the problem is. I don't remember if Craig got any of the singles. But as some have said, the figures that first came out and those coming out now (uh, give or take the Viper) are pretty awesome. It's still hit and miss as far as I can tell and the variants of figures are pretty annoying. BUT at least there is NOW a huge separation 'tween ARAH and 25A, right? You won't get 'em mixed up!!! It was stated by TRU that they hate collectors. There was a thread on the JBL about that one...

05-30-2008, 09:03 PM	#55
lehsreh G.I. Smurf Offline --> Posts: 3,446 --> Join Date: Jan 2006	that is the big problem with people who hate the 25th. at first i was disappointed, thats with the 2 5 packs. then the single packs started coming out and got better, better and better. honestly, the reason was that hasbro didnt think they were going to sell as well as they did and only made the first wave for collectors, no one else. then they saw how they were selling and how people wanted them and were told the problems they had. now there making them for everyone to use however you want, not just as collectibles. thats why i said everyone should give one of the last 2 snake eyes a chance and see if their minds dont change some. this isnt to say you will want to buy them because obviously some just dont want anything but old school stuff.

05-30-2008, 11:46 PM

#56

haradrel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Saboteur

Oh and to clarify.. i posted to try and humble the convo.. i wasn't attempting to throw my weight around.. truth is i dont think i could take another man/joe drama

Didn't think you were

We all need to "cool our heads" when it becomes to heated - And with something we love and pour our hearts (and money) into its bound to be touchy on a few things. I'll promise from my side that there will be no drama, just debate

I'll post pictures later with an explanation on articulation to prove that the 25th have better poseability. For now I have a dog to walk (I'm dog watching this weekend for a friend) so I can't post to much or to long (the dog has ADHD and is hyper-active)

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05-31-2008, 01:46 PM	#57
Outrider It's been a great ride! Offline --> Posts: 14,302 --> Join Date: Jun 2005	Look, it hasn't been anything but civil; a little warm perhaps, but I for one would not let things spiral into personal insults or childish garbage like that. We disagree, and that's it. I respect people's opinions that differ from mine even though I will never agree with them, and expect only the same in return. I can be a stubborn, hard headed old b@stard, but you won't hear "your opinion sux" or the like from me. __________________ "The future's uncertain and the end is always near." - The Doors "Roadhouse Blues".

05-31-2008, 02:18 PM

#58

haradrel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Outrider

Look, it hasn't been anything but civil; a little warm perhaps, but I for one would not let things spiral into personal insults or childish garbage like that. We disagree, and that's it. I respect people's opinions that differ from mine even though I will never agree with them, and expect only the same in return. I can be a stubborn, hard headed old b@stard, but you won't hear "your opinion sux" or the like from me.

We are very much alike then

Well after having a dog with ADHD which is hyper too all day as well as airsofting for 4 hours I'm pretty tired right about now

I'll throw up some pictures and an explanation on why more points of articulation will lead to better posability (as well as show the new 25th's can look up just as well as the old ones can). Hope everyone is enjoying their weekend!

And o-ring or not, this is still a great hobby

(I just got my Marauder order today

)

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06-02-2008, 04:33 AM	#59
Stormer Wasss once a man Offline --> Posts: 1,430 --> Join Date: Nov 2006	I voted to bring back the o-ring -- must say I don't really appreciate the blatant bias in the wording of the poll questions, basically saying that 25th has been forward progress and anyone who doesn't like it is closed-minded. I've never seen ANYONE say they don't like 25th just because it's different, they usually back up their opinion with quite specific reasons. And I now feel more qualified in my own opinion, because... I NOW OWN SOME 25TH FIGURES!!! They feel all spindly; a lot of their articulation (arms especially) doesn't move smoothly, they want to be locked in a few particular positions; they hold their weapons like they're scared of them; Fred/CG's lower leg & knee popped out of his thigh the first time I tried to bend them. And, they all look like they need their upper torso pushed about half an inch further down onto their lower section. I'll get BATs, maybe characters who've never had a figure before since I'm not going to get them any other way, but I'm not encouraged to replace any of my existing collection, or even get 25th versions of figures I DON'T have already. Vehicles, though -- really wish I could find those...! __________________ * * * * * Come check out my Flickr account for more pics of my collection and additional shots from my JoeDios photoshoots. Includes my "Class Reunion" and "Foes Of The Joes" sets, exclusive to Flickr! Last updated 2/5/10.

06-03-2008, 02:33 PM

#60

haradrel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Saboteur

Ok, just to point a few things out,
Haradrel commented:
"They have more posability then original figures mainly because of more movable parts.They are more true to real scale 1:18 even with the varying head sizes.
The rest is probably opinions and you are right about that."

Now, as far as the 25th Anniversary is concerned, yes they have more articulation, but just because they have more movable parts it doesn't
necessarily make them better or necessarily more articulated.

You didn't disagree with me here, only that you thought it didn't make them better.
Here's a few example of more natural poses because of the extra articulation.
(storm shadow and jinx better posing) (flint natural shooting pose) (storm shadow and jinx better posing 2)

(Flint aiming)
the 25th flint gets his gun in his shoulder and can aim through the sight and holds his gun in a natural way
(other flint aiming)
The same goes for this one, only his other hand is at an awkward angle (no wrist movement)

(dialtone not aiming)
Dialtone can't look through his sights, and does not hold a very natural pose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Saboteur

Now look at a 25th Figure. It has articulation midway up the torso, however I should point out the following.
1. Cosmetically i don't think it looks right at all, most of the figures that don't have covering armor look like the bodies need pushing up

into the ribcage.

I won't disagree completely with you here, just say that the original line has the same problem only lower down - view example here:
(looking up belly)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Saboteur

2. Does it really benefit you that much when taking pictures, lots of people have coped fine with the Oring style torso and it still offers

lots of detail without the man boobs problem.

I personally don't find the man boobs to be such a huge problem, but I guess this is a taste thing, point of fact is that the 25th are more

true anatomically then their earlier brethren even with the man boobs. (but it is a heroic line, so take that with some grain of salt.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Saboteur

Here is an example where by putting in a change hasn't really had a great effect.

True, but I'm chalking this one up to taste differences - I really don't like how the o-ring torso suddenly just ends and you see the

opening and o-ring when leaning the figures back.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Saboteur

You could counter balance this argument with what has been mentioned about the double jointed knees couldn't you

The double jointed knees were a great addition to GIJOE figures.

Agreed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Saboteur

As for the size issue, this will always be a great debate amongst fans, some want the figures to be all together in scale, as in the RAH

mold.. where as other fans want 25th style designs because they appear to be more realistic in design to the body sculpt, for example Destro

& Gung-Ho should be taller than Baroness and Scarlett.
This particular argument, i don't think there is truly a right and wrong, because it comes down to preference on the fan, hasbro would have

to release two different styles of series per wave.. and i don't think hasbro would do it.

Agreed

Taste issue again - or personal preference by any other name

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Saboteur

The solid nub on top of the torso (for example no ball joint neck) is a bad move, sure you can pop the head off, but on the 25th Stormshadow I

reviewed, he can't look up.. as in to look up at a sentry on guard..

Here I have to say that you are wrong, and I'll prove it with pictures. He has actually the same range of movement as the older figures.
see here:
(Stormy looking up)
in the picture jinx actually can't look up at all!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Saboteur

secondly is the sitting down problem.. sure they have double jointed knees.. but theres too much plastic action going on with the torso.. so

they have trouble sitting.

Trouble? I've never had any trouble with them, they have longer legs so not all accessories fit them is all. See even the "diaper" 25th can

sit down (flint is one of these)

(Sitting Down)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Saboteur

Now.. list those back.. we have the problem with the torso ..
the problem with the waist/legs movement and the fact they can't sit.. and the head/ball joint neck issue.
Those are my 3 honest constructive criticisms of hasbro's changes, based on my review of the 25th.. 3 changes that haven't really helped the

line at all.. not in any way shape or form..

I think I've proven that some of those issues were not completely accurate, whilst the rest was a taste/personal preference thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Saboteur

having said that I've mentioned points in my review that also favor the 25th, lets all be honest.. if hasbro went back to the Oring style

construction.. and released all the 25th anniversary figures into RAH sculpt.. would their be any takers..
and if so, how would this reflect on hasbro's business strategy for the future..
"every time we make a change to the line, it has to be approved by fans.. " Yes.. well no I don't believe it does..
No one single toy line stays still.. if it does.. it perishes.. and dies an old slow death.. Toys have to change it's part of evolving and

life.. hasbro aren't forcing you to buy the 25th range of toys.. so if you don't like them, don't buy them.

One final point on the "Oring is gijoe statement" I think it's true in the sense that they grew up with those style of gi Joes.. and that's

as far as it goes.. it doesn't matter if you choose to ignore the 25th anniversary, cobra la, sigma 6 and even the feared extreme line or

eco warriors.. it's all a brand of GIJOE.. weather or not you choose to admit it.. when we're all dead and gone it will be written in hasbro

history archives they had these toys..
Much in the same way the 25th are now a part of GIJOE... deal with it don't deal with it.. your choice .. but saying Oring is gijoe is like

an 12" gijoe fan saying 3 3/4 figures aren't gi joe.. all of it is GIJOE.. just because you don't see something .. it doesn't mean to say it

doesn't exist.

Agreed on all points

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Saboteur

Props to everyone so far for their cultured and knowledgeable debate.. Good Stuff

Indeed

And again don't take this reply personally, you just pointed out a few things that I think most nay sayers to the 25th line have
a problem with.

All in all I think some of the "old school" collectors need to convince themselves not to buy the 25th because of the economic impact on

their wallet - so they try to build up under the theory that the 25th are an inferior product to the original line.
I'm saying maybe, MAYBE as toys, but for collectors the 25th should be the best thing since sliced bread - this is just my personal opinion

and all the taste/preference things come to mind.

it all boils down to taste/personal preference if you ask me.
The older lines had problems with thumb and crotch breaking as well as a few loose limbs from time to time.
So far my 25th have experienced very few loose limbs (only 3 or 4 out of probably 50-60 figures - and not those that I use the most) and no

breakages - But this might be my handling of them as an adult so I won't say that for sure (anybody with kids who plays with 25th can chime in with a view point on this).
I also really don't like the scale of the original line as opposed to the new 25th - but I prefer things to come off as natural as possible, so that really is a personal taste/preference thing. Again after having done art for 3 years at school you get kind of 4n4l about such things

(yes I just leeted to avoid a bad word

)

I will however firmly believe that if some of the nay sayers pick up a few of the 25th and take a few photographs with them, you will see

that they are superior when it comes to photography as opposed to the old school stuff. - The molds are better, the expressions are pretty

good as well (though you get some classic faces from the older lines, I never really liked the overly humorous faces on them - even as a kid

I never got why Flint was smirking all the time.)

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