And that says it all. I have been discouraged from posting many of my dio shots because 25th stuff gets blasted. It's one thing to crit a pick but to trash it cause you don't like the line is a real turn off.

And O-Ring is not G.I. Joe, 12" is. Sorry it came first and paved the way for the HUGE change that was the 3 3/4" stuff which paved the way for 25th.

I don't write this to offend anyone, I loved Joedios and want to love it again. As my gramma used to say, "If you've got nothing nice to say don't say anything."

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Would you guys have preferred the opposite figures? I could easily switch them if that's what you both want.

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No, I'm cool.

Talking to the guys on the JBL, we didn't know what to call that 2002+ era Joes. The JvC concept was a relaunch, trying to push things forward. People tended to called 'new sculpts' (or for me to make it more stylish, "NU SKULPT"). But when the 25th hit, THOSE are NEW SCULPTS so what do we call that middle era? A bunch of them started calling them "The Bastard Era" or something very close to that. They aren't quite ARAH and they aren't 25A. It's like Brunch. "It's not quite breakfast, it's not quite lunch, but you get the best of both..." (or however that line in the Simpsons was, lol)

I don't know if I think of the o-ring as defining GI Joe. Part of me says, "It's just an articulation style..." But then, I think, "well, no other figure (that i can remember) was doing o-rings." Certainly NOT Star Wars and they have YET to do that! It still kills me that most of those SW figures are t or v crotch styles! It's not like a CloneTrooper can sit down, right? I don't see people complaining about that.

BUT... If we take the ultra-fragile Takara Microman figures... IF Takara did something different with their figures, I bet people would say that it doesn't have the standard articulation. MM have a very distinct build, y'know?

I always felt that what made GI Joe awesome was that it was:

1. It was a military toyline (which seems to have gone off on it's own tangent)

2. TONS of colorful characters. From shiny headed Destro to masked Cobra Commander to the mysterious Snake Eyes, the straight-edged Duke, the cooking Roadblock, the laser guy named Flash, the skin suited diver Torpedo, the tripping Tripwire, etc.

3. Vehicles were a gnarly part of GI Joe. It SHOULD still be. Not all troops run on the ground the whole time. We got such gnarly things like the HAVOC, WHALE, VAMP, HISS, and vehicles of ALL sizes.

4. Price value was great for a lil action figure that beat the crap out of Star Wars in terms of articulation. Articulation made GI Joe popular to me. Be it o-ring, elbow joints, knee joints, etc. That stuff is STILL not standard on a lot of toys!

5. Cartoon and comic to help us kids out. We got a visual action form in the cartoon and a more serious storyline with the comic. IF it was in the comic, I probably wanted it. If it was on the cartoon, well, it brought the toys to life.

Can't think of what else off the top of my head...

Oh and Crosshair. I like the figure. Yes, he can't hold a rifle but I fiddled around with a lot of weapons for him and found a couple that work well. My beef is the head sculpt. He has a big head and a terrible hair style! Fred would be proud of that haircut!

I'm not going to get into an argument over this. You can pick apart my opinions all you want, but your counter points are only your opinions. It would be easy for me to reply on a point by point basis, but that will not get anyone anywhere because it will just go on forever. I have never disrespected anyone else's views , and that's why I'm entitled to my view that the 25th anniversary range is a steaming pile of cr@p. I'm glad you enjoy them, but I'll never spend one more cent on the junk. Thank you and good night.

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Not trying to argue - but you are wrong that all of those points where opinions.
They have more posability then original figures mainly because of more movable parts.
They are more true to real scale 1:18 even with the varying headsizes.
The rest is probably opinions and you are right about that.

You are of course totally intitled to your opinion, and I know where you are comming from so I respect that you dislike the 25th a lot. All I wanted to point out - and not just to you is that it gets tiresome to hear 25th bashing just about everytime something is posted - as someone else said they come here to enjoy their hobby, I don't enjoy having to filter out opinions with no constructive critsicm from most of the post- What I'm saying is really, just think about what you are posting before pressing that 'submit reply' button (and this isn't to you personally but to everyone that lets off steam on their favourite pet peve).

I really do see the point that people who collect the originals got screwed over, and that most people are really annoyed by this (I would be to if I had been collecting that long!). Vent all you want, but please keep it in one place such as the 'bash the 25th line' post, it keeps things more tidy and makes for a better atmosphere for us that utilize the 25th - Again this wasn't you personally, you just happen to have a lot of the things people hate about the 25th in your post

Note to everyone else reading this : Outrider has posted comments on my pictures containing the 25th and its been just positive comments! So take it with a grain of salt that I picked his reply as an example - it was really meant as in general. Aight back to work! (yeah I'm at work...)

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I can't write nothing better to express what I feel .....

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Alright.
It's been mentioned that we could go on and on, as long as we don't flame each other we are cool though
Ok, just to point a few things out,
Haradrel commented:
"They have more posability then original figures mainly because of more movable parts.
They are more true to real scale 1:18 even with the varying headsizes.
The rest is probably opinions and you are right about that."

Now, as far as the 25th Anniversary is concerned, yes they have more articulation, but just because they have more moveable parts it doesn't necessarily make them better or necessarily more articulated.
That probably doesn't make alot of sense to you reading it, so I'm going to do my level best at explaining.
before I do this, please see my review on the 25th Storm Shadow. I don't hate the 25th, I just don't like all the decisions hasbro has made.
http://www.joedios.com/dioramas/sho...php?i=13559&c=9
Back to my explanation on the moveable parts issue, we'll take a simple 1985 RAH Flint. His torso piece is one piece and not moveable (I.e has no articulation as such on the plastic).
Now look at a 25th Figure. It has articulation midway up the torso, however I should point out the following.
1. Cosmetically i don't think it looks right at all, most of the figures that don't have covering armor look like the bodies need pushing up into the ribcage.
2. Does it really benefit you that much when taking pictures, lots of people have coped fine with the Oring style torso and it still offers lots of detail without the man boobs problem.

Here is an example where by putting in a change hasn't really had a great effect. You could counter balance this argument with what has been mentioned about the double jointed knees couldnt you
The double jointed knees were a great addition to GIJOE figures.

As for the size issue, this will always be a great debate amongst fans, some want the figures to be all together in scale, as in the RAH mold.. where as other fans want 25th style designs because they appear to be more realistic in design to the body sculpt, for example Destro & Gung-Ho should be taller than Baroness and Scarlett.
This particular argument, i dont think there is truely a right and wrong, because it comes down to preference on the fan, hasbro would have to release two different styles of series per wave.. and i don't think hasbro would do it.

Now back to my point about changes made to 25th figures.. whereby they have included these changes with more articulation and movement in mind,
two points spring to mind from my review here..
The solid nub ontop of the torso (for example no balljoint neck) is a bad move, sure you can pop the head off, but on the 25th Stormshadow I reviewed, he can't look up.. as in to look up at a sentry on guard..
secondly is the sitting down problem.. sure they have double jointed knees.. but theres too much plastic action going on with the torso.. so they have trouble sitting.

Now.. list those back.. we have the problem with the torso ..
the problem with the waist/legs movement and the fact they can't sit.. and the head/balljoint neck issue.
Those are my 3 honest constructive criticisms of hasbro's changes, based on my review of the 25th.. 3 changes that haven't really helped the line at all.. not in any way shape or form..
having said that i've mentioned points in my review that also favour the 25th, lets all be honest.. if hasbro went back to the Oring style construction.. and released all the 25th anniversary figures into RAH sculpt.. would their be any takers..
and if so, how would this reflect on hasbro's business strategy for the future..
"everytime we make a change to the line, it has to be approved by fans.. " Yes.. well no I don't believe it does..
No one single toy line stays still.. if it does.. it perishes.. and dies an old slow death.. Toys have to change it's part of evolving and life.. hasbro aren't forcing you to buy the 25th range of toys.. so if you don't like them, don't buy them.

One final point on the "Oring is gijoe statement" I think it's true in the sense that they grew up with those style of gi Joes.. and that's as far as it goes.. it doesn't matter if you choose to ignore the 25th anniversary, cobra la, sigma 6 and even the feared extreme line or eco warriors.. it's all a brand of GIJOE.. weather or not you choose to admit it.. when we're all dead and gone it will be written in hasbro history archives they had these toys..
Much in the same way the 25th are now a part of GIJOE... deal with it don't deal with it.. your choice .. but saying Oring is gijoe is like an 12" gijoe fan saying 3 3/4 figures aren't gi joe.. all of it is GIJOE.. just because you don't see something .. it doesn't mean to say it doesn't exist.

Props to everyone so far for their cultured and knowledgable debate.. Good Stuff

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