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Wow, a lot was posted in this thread in just one day!

I like the comic a lot, so I won't bash it. What I will do is defend the cartoon, which I enjoy just as much as the comic, but in a different way.

First off, I like that the cartoon gave voices to all the characters. To this day, when I read the comics, I hear the cartoon voices in my head. The dialogue was corny, but at least it "popped." "Eye in the sky, go in high! Gung-Ho Joe is goin' in low" may well be one of the silliest lines ever written for television, but it sounded good when Chris Latta said it, and I've never forgotten it.

I also love the background music, especially from the first two mini-series (as I'm sure you realize since I made MP3s of all of it, which Hammerfel hosted on this site). Again, when I read the comics, I hear music in my head from the cartoon, and it enhances the experience.

I also like the "high adventure/James Bond" feel that Lava Boss mentioned. To keep the attention of kids (or at least this kid), you needed more than just strict military protocol. The cartoon had the type of action you'd see in a 007 or Indiana Jones movie, and that really appealed to me.

As the BATman pointed out, what kid at age 7 or 8 or 9 cared or even understood that most Joes shouldn't be able to fly fighter jets? And if they did know, would they have cared? I wouldn't have! It seems a little weird to me now, but it doesn't detract my enjoyment of the show.

I also couldn't have cared less that Duke was bossing around characters with lower ranks than him. The cartoon said he was the leader, so I ignored the filecards. I knew he was a sergeant and therefore was outranked by a general or a colonel, but I just figured that he had been granted special authority to give orders to the likes of Ace and Steeler (I don't count Flint since his card gave him a lower rank anyway).

Finally, as to the subject matter -- I believe that the very first mini-series is the best of the whole show. The teleportation gimmick is kind of ridiculous (but again, I didn't care as a young child, and I doubt many kids did), but it did a great job of presenting all the characters and illustrating the universe fairly well. The Revenge of Cobra added more characters while fleshing out some of the ones we already knew and is my second favorite of the whole run.

After that, it's hit or miss. I personally hate The Pyramid of Darkness. The writing is childish -- and I know to someone who already has a low opinion of the show that doesn't mean much, but even when compared with the most childish of any of the other episodes, P.o.D. was ridiculously juvenile and simplistic. Then the series moved into stand-alone episodes, and there were some winners and some losers, but what I appreciated the most, in both good episodes and bad, was that everyone had an established character and they all behaved within the parameters you learned to expect. I've said it many times before, but I'll mention it again -- I love Larry Hama, but all his heroic characters sound the same! I could grab a line from a good guy out of almost any issue and ask you to identify the speaker, and I bet no one could tell a Hawk line from a Stalker line from a Flint line from a Duke line. They all just spouted generic military jargon. Meanwhile, I could grab a line from the script of almost any TV episode, and I bet there's a much better chance someone with some familiarity with the characters as presented on the show could guess the speaker.

Anyway, I reiterate -- I do like the comic, quite a bit. It has things I like more than the show, such as the intricate backstory, the soap operatics, and the fact that it was all the vision of one man. But I also love the cartoon. Maybe nostalgia is a big part of it, but the fact that I watched the entire series over again earlier this year and didn't flinch much at all tells me that there must be something more to it than that, if you can let go of your idea of how things are "supposed" to be and just enjoy it as a fun action/adventure/fantasy/sci-fi cartoon.

(And for the record, the majority of occasions when I did flinch while re-watching the show were all in The Pyramid of Darkness! It really is just that awful!)

(And P.S.: Nice call on "Twenty Questions," Swindle. That is one of the most right-on episodes of the whole show to illustrate a lot of the points I tried make up above! Everything clicked in that one!)

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is on indefinite hiatus...

Both great points. I am sure all the cartoon haters do the same thing. I even do it when I am messing with my figures & setting up shots. We know what Cobra Commander, Destro & Baroness sound like fron the cartoon. How else would we know that Duke's voice is as cheesy as version 1's grin if we did not hear it on the toon?

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Wow. Strong feelings either way. Even though now I look at the cartoon and feel sick, it still does give me that nostalgic feeling. I remember waking up one morning to watch what I thought was a rerun and seeing Scrap Iron and Firefly and calling my buddy Scott at like 7:30, waking up his Mom (Who was pi$$ed!!!) to tell him it was a new Episode!

I think one thing that ruined it for me was the fact that my start of watching more "Adult oriented" cartoons was "StarBlazers", which dealt with themes like Genocide and combat and, although not bloody, people actually died! Although I thought that StarBlazers was a StarWars knock off until I found out it started in 1974.

The cartoon was GI Joe to me, I was a kid and that was my window in to the GI Joe world I can rember having a VHS tape of the episode Red Rockets Glare in which Cobra puts real rockets on the top of these Red Rocket Drive In's who coincidentally Roadblock' Aunt and Uncle had bought. They call him Marvin in front of Recondo, Recondo snickers. As the rocket on the roof is starting to lauch Roadlock trying to stop it climbs on it along with Tomax and Xamot they fly on it it crashes in Washington Dc in the pond in front of the Lincoln memorial and they are all fine. I thought it was crazy as a kid but I didn't care I loved it. To this day I hear some of the voices in my head Major Bludd, Destro, Shipwreck, Cobra Commander, Zartan, Roadblock, Leatherneck, and Wetsuit just to name a few. The cartoon is awesome. The comics i read the Marvel run and I really liked it and thought Hamma did a great job with the restraints placed on him. Hamma was also great at the sub plot and bringing things back later on in the run. The Devil's Due comics take way too much crap were they as good as the Marvel run no but they are good did they mix comics and cartoon stuff sure but they did bring Joes back into comics hell they brought Larry Hamma back to writting joes. In closing it was much easier to show my mom what vehicles I wanted as a kid when I saw them on the cartoon which is Hasbro doing thier jobs as the show was a half hour commercial for the toys.

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the Voices....that's another thing that ruined it for me. Most of them were right on the Money. Roadblock was the quiet Giant (didn't like his Muhamed Ali Rhyming, but the voice was on or at least close!) Gung ho I thought could have been more French/Cajun sounding, but it was good! Duke, Flint, shipwreck,Mutt perfect with how I had imagined them (minus the corny dialog). BBQ was a treat! His accent was pure stereotype Boston! Scarlett was good too, just, I dunno....too young, maybe? Beachhead was 100% the way I imagined him speaking!

Where they REALLY botched up was Cobra! Baroness was a little corny, but I could accept it. Scrap Iron and Storm Shadow were ok. (Did Firefly ever speak?) Destro's voice would have suited him if he wasn't supposed to be a Scottish Lord! But he sounded like James Earl Jones with cotton mouth! And the All time disappointment, the no holds barred, king of all let downs was Cobra Commander. Here is a guy who built "A ruthless Terrorist Organization determine to rule the World", but he talked like pee-wee Herman with a lisp after sucking helium! What person in their right mind would follow someone with a voice like that? How can you take that sniveling, high pitched voice seriously? Don't get me wrong...Chris Latta has MAD voice skills, but whoever told him to play it that way should be shot!

I see Cobra Commander more like Gary Oldman as Stansfield on that movie "The Professional". Or Like Hannibal Lector. Genius, cunning, violent and dangerous and mad! But with that voice, he could never be more than a buffoon.

Heh, I agree. It was so bad that it was good!

I understand what you're saying here, but I don't entirely agree. Actually, I never even realized for many years that Arthur Burghardt was African-American (until I learned that he played Stalker too!). I just figured they wanted a really deep voice (which fits the character), but I think he tried to throw a little Sean Connery accent (or something similar) in there, which I'm guessing is where your problem lies. I do think the voice suits him, but I also feel that as the series goes on, he goes a little too deep and it becomes hard to understand him sometimes. As a kid, due to the abnormal deepness and the increasingly muddled accent (which reached its peak here), I could not for the life of me understand his first line in G.I. Joe: The Movie (all I could hear was "(throbbing bass) Cobra Commander (throbbing bass) world class buffon!")(and my TV back then didn't even have bass!)

Like Destro, I think Cobra Commander's voice started out okay. Yes, it was scratchy and he was always prone to shrieking tantrums... But listen to him in the very first episode -- part one of the M.A.S.S. Device (and the rest of that mini-series too). To my ears at least, his voice sounds pretty deep and menacing. But later on, I think Latta starting mixing his Cobra Commander voice with his Starscream voice (who was always whiny from day one), and we got a sniveling Cobra Commander. However, I also feel that it sort of fits the "James Bond Villain" persona he was given on the cartoon. It was somewhat Blofeld-esque (classic Blofeld from "You Only Live Twice," of course). To use your analagy, I couldn't see a character played by Gary Oldman trying to draw a picture of himself on the moon, but I could totally see Donald Pleasance doing so! The voice was simply an extension of the over-the-top nature of the TV show Cobra Commander -- which though it may not be the way we all think he should be portrayed, certainly appealed to kids (the kids I knew, anyway).

That said, I will say that I tend to like Cobra Commander's portrayal in the comics better than on the show. He was far more cunning and ruthless, and you could buy him as the leader of Cobra -- but that doesn't stop me from still hearing the cartoon voice when I read his dialogue (and I actually think that voice enhances him in the later issues when he became super verbose and prone to using gigantic words for no reason).

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[QUOTE=Self-Modifier]

I understand what you're saying here, but I don't entirely agree. Actually, I never even realized for many years that Arthur Burghardt was African-American (until I learned that he played Stalker too!). I just figured they wanted a really deep voice (which fits the character), but I think he tried to throw a little Sean Connery accent (or something similar) in there, which I'm guessing is where your problem lies. I do think the voice suits him, but I also feel that as the series goes on, he goes a little too deep and it becomes hard to understand him sometimes. As a kid, due to the abnormal deepness and the increasingly muddled accent (which reached its peak here), I could not for the life of me understand his first line in G.I. Joe: The Movie (all I could hear was "(throbbing bass) Cobra Commander (throbbing bass) world class buffon!")(and my TV back then didn't even have bass!)

QUOTE]

Destro: "Cobra Commander is a first class buffon!" I still love that line.

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