Haradrel, What do you think SHOULD be done? Do you think because they don't hurt the hostages, they should be paid off? I understand they have little industry in their country and they feel that they are FORCED to to this to make money, but by the same Token, they can use the boats for fishing and make money. It just seems to me they are too lazy to work hard and make something out of their own country, and it's much easier to put gun in someone's face and take what others have worked hard for.

I understand it's hard for them to make a living. Life is not easy in Somalia, but they DON'T have the right to steal. I'd like to help them make their country great and civilized, but THEY have to put in the work. If that were the case, then why have cities and civilization? Just wait until someone makes industry and steal from them.

When you say there's no simple solution, do you mean to Somalia? Or to end the Piracy?

This is what I was trying to say in my post before, it doesnt really matter which country you come from, Piracy is Piracy.. life is tough in somalia.. it's tough in other countries too, but the only way these countries are going to get any better is if they are willing to help themselves from the get go, that means their own leaders actually organizing the country better, and making sure that they have the right resources to feed all the starving..
Making sure that they give sanctions so that piracy can be stopped in their own country and allowing contractors to do the work so that they can make something of the country.. create and industry where jobs will become available..

it all really has to start from the get-go, if everyone isnt paddling in the same direction.. theres going to be chaos.. which is what you see with most of these 3rd world countries

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I neither have the real world experience nor intelligence to dictate what should be done to fix such a problem. And I doubt very much that any of us here do. Sure we can debate it all we want, but I don't think it will lead to anything.

My points is simply this, The guns blazing method has been tried and tested and found wanting. I'd like to point out that you say that the government in Somalia can't be trusted - even by the people. And as you said, they don't have to steal to make something of their country but they do.

Personally I think there is a deeper psychological issue at work with the whole people here, all they have ever known is war, its hard to tell someone like that to "shape up your life and stop doing what has been working so far for you". They are inherently damaged as people, you keep comparing them to someone from your own country or a country that has a normal economy with no wars happening on and in their country - I think you lack the bigger picture concerning the PEOPLE there.

I've met a few refugees from Somalia - even had my life threatened by one. I've never come across a more ruined people psychologically wise. So what do I think needs to be done?
Start with helping the people. - Hand outs can only do so much, if it was up to me I would stop that all together - Cut the country off from all neighbors and start helping the people there help themselves. Even as unlikely as that would be, it would be a starting point.

But as I said in the start, I very much doubt we here on the board have any say in this as we lack a bigger picture and experience with this. Sure you can feel anything you want about the subject and think you have the answers, but I don't think it would help much.



In this case they are one and the same - Stopping Piracy on the boarders of Somalia would only increase the stress somewhere else - it would move the problem not remove it.

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Force is the only way to stop a criminal. Us Armchair Generals can argue about the where, when, who and why but force is the only permanent solution.

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Is it really?
So the kid who steals a candy bar in a shop should get the living daylights beaten out of him?

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The sad part of all of this. If you kill those piratres, how many are waiting to take thier place? I agree with having a special multi national task force dedicated to patrolling the waters. Everyone that does any business in that area of shipping should have an interest in protecting their property and lives of the crews. Its not going to immediately solve the problem unfortunately. Place a cookie jar out of a childs reach, that child will eventually get that cookie jar. They will figure out another way to reach thier goal. Should the cargo ships have 50cal deck guns and possibly anti ship missiles and properly trained people to operate them? Should we blow them outta the water on sight? We do have the right to protect ourselves from harm. Maybe the answer lies in an escort by some armed ships provided by the task force? I say find thier ports where they dock, and obliterate thier means of transport. If we can send a cruise missile into an air conditioning duct, we should have no problem hitting thier boats. I do agree that they do need help rebuilding thier country and government. The normal people are the ones suffering. You do have to remove the roots if you want the tree to stop growing.

We were talking about pirates, but...

I don't know what it's like in Norway but in North America there is a growing belief that spanking your kids is wrong, even criminal. Parents have been charged with abuse for disciplining their kids. Even the repercussions for youth crimes are becoming less and less simply because "they're only kids." And every year youth crime grows and becomes more violent. Does nobody see the connection?

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Which was my point.
You made the connection quite clear though - if they are criminal then use force to punish them.
So suddenly in this example you had to take into account that it was a child.

Well there are many things to take into account about Somalian pirates. Some of them are children too you know.

Force isn't always the best answer - Especially in cases such as this - as has been proven time and time again. You can throw enough soldiers and bombs on a problem, but it will not make it go away.

As to the connection you tried to hint at. I do believe crime has always been violent and growing - more people means more things that can go wrong - there has been not a single thing proven that NOT hitting your kids will make them grow up to be bad. It has been proven though that hitting kids will cause psychological effects that will ripple through them for years into the future. - Now think about the Somalians for 2 seconds and put yourself in their place - they have lived with war their entire lives. It is the only thing they know - Actually I think your example was a really good one to make my point on.

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I think the Navy should come up besides the pirate ship and have sailors swing aboard on ropes and fight the pirates with swords. Tell me that wouldn't be bad ass.