I was fiddling around with my 25A Joes and there just something 'magical' about the Original 13 compared to those that came after. Maybe it's because when GI Joe started for a lot of us, it was 13 guys, period. New members just trickled in after that, didn't get another huge batch like we did. Maybe that's just it. When setting the figures up, I literally have Duke on one side and Hawk on the other. And in a way, it suddenly felt like the relationship Cobra Commander had with Serpentor. ie; who is the real boss?

Now, if we ignore the cartoon for now... You guys think that some Joes will be more loyal to Duke and that some are more loyal to Hawk?

Like, the original 13, they all followed Hawk and Flagg. There was never any reaction when Duke took over and Roadblock ursurped the heavy gunner position. Certainly, there had to be some hard feelings. You can't tell me that everyone, in their heart, followed Duke just because they were told to. Human nature, y'know?

What about the guys who came after Duke was introduced? Did they want really want to follow an old fart like Hawk?

I was just curious as to any thoughts and feelings on this.


This is how I set them up. Wasn't really thinking, just went with what felt natural. Weird, eh?

This is an interesting idea. While I'm sure the Joes show loyalty to both commanders, I could see certain ones having specific allegiances. In particular, as you said, the original 13 probably have a particular affinity for Hawk, and I would imagine most of the '83 recruits (Gung-Ho, Doc, Torpedo, etc.) would feel the same way.

Joes I could see as having a special allegiance to Duke would be Roadblock (showed up with him in his first appearance and they were virtually inseparable for a long time after), Flint (his filecard says he used to serve with Duke, and his first appearance in the comic specifies that Duke recruited him to the Joes), Lady Jaye (they just always seemed to get along well), and most of the 84-85 cast who joined while Duke was the acting field commander. In 1986, Hawk was promoted and put himself back in the field, so I'd imagine most post-86 characters would follow Hawk and Duke equally since they were sharing field command duties at this point.

Of course, the above is all based on the comics. In the cartoon, I'd imagine all pre-86 characters' loyalties would lie with Duke, who commanded them for three years before Hawk arrived. In particular, Scarlett (obviously), Snake-Eyes, and Gung-Ho seemed to have a very good rapport with Duke on the show.

My 25th Joes aren't really displayed in any sort of "factions" though. I have a front row consisting of Duke, Hawk, Flint, and Lady Jaye, a second row with Timber, Scarlett, Snake-Eyes, Stalker, and Gung-Ho, a third row with Beachhead and Shipwreck, and fourth row featuring Roadblock and his machine gun.

(But wait-- Where are Flash and Snow-Job standing, you ask? Don't ask me! Ask Hasbro's idiotic distribution department!)

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I concur with a lot of what Self-Modifier said about the Joes loyalty, basically to the letter. With the cartoon out of the picture I'd say the originals were most loyal to Hawk etc etc. I do think that after Duke displayed real leadership abilities and worked well with Hawk that there came a point when Joes were just Joes following orders. I know what it's like to serve with someone only to have a new guy come in and there is a lot of resentment but one good firefight cures that.

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I jokingly had the idea that Tiger Force was Duke and his loyal followers trying to usurp General Hawk and his flunkies. But you know, violent power struggles don't really work amongst good guys, especially the US military. Not sure where Sgt. Slaughter fits in...maybe he's Hawk's enforcer...since the Sarge was sort of Duke's replacement in the toy line as "corporate champion" (until Slaughter was phased out by 1991).

That's why so many 1986 characters are redundant...Hawk couldn't trust most of the old crew anymore.



1985 was a lot of new joes, some 10 carded (plus a new Snake-Eyes, but he wasn't a new character) and 5 vehicle drivers (most of whom were very underused in all media). The cartoon gave the carded figures a lot of exposure. Some later fans, especially cartoon fans, probably consider most of them to the iconic team more than the 1982 batch. The 1982 crop hardly appears on the toon after the first 2 mini-serials (mini-serieses?), the big exception being Scarlett, of course.


1990 was solid new characters (ignoring Sonic Fighters, which IMHO were part of the 1991 series). But we only had Dic's toon to characterize those Joes.

Soldiers OBEY those people who are set in rightful authority,but they FOLLOW those people whom they believe will keep them alive.

So I think Hawk and Duke will be respected AND Followed by all the Joes.

Liking or disliking.........some of each.

I figure in #16 when Hawk got shot in the back, the Joes had a fit! Duke never got shot up nor did he ever go toe-to-toe with an actual bad guy for most of Marvel's run (well, at least thru the Cobra War). Maybe that would make people more interested in following him with their hearts. And certainly in the early issues of AE, people weren't overly cool with him.

So you notice in the shot that SE & Scar are way off to the side with Stormy, the outcast in the way back. (the other SE and Scar are extras) You got Gung Ho, Roadblock and Shipwreck who are rather impartial and well what is needed. Don't ask why Beach Head is over near Hawk. It always seemed that both Hawk and Beachy were no-nonsense guys so they tend to be more of a threat than Duke alone. *shrug*