Well, you both stated your case quite eloquently. I especially liked the "rowboats shooting spitballs at the battleships" metaphor.
I have to admit, I didn't know, or care to know about the 2 "cliques" forming up. I
hate cliques, and I was counting on mature artists transcending cliques for the sake of the art.
In high school and college, I wasn't a member of just one clique, I was in several of them, and learned my love of diplomacy by bridging those divides.
In addition to cliques, I also hate elitists. And thugs. And anyone else who takes enjoyment out of picking on other people, whether it's griping about an inconsequential violation of a minor rule, or drawing grotesquely obscene caricatures of members you don't like and posting them to Flickr. NemesisEnforcerFan, I'd like to hear what you have to say about this, as I haven't witnessed this cruelty myself. I don't doubt you at all, I just don't have a lot of time to police JD and may not be picking up on that stuff.
Prince Adam, your description of the creative collaboration amongst talented artists is why I made this site. That and to archive great work for the ages. Before JoeDios, the most popular place to post dios was in a sub-forum of JoeCustoms, and those were pruned after 30 days of inactivity. SO MUCH great art was lost! That spurred me to make a home for people like you and me.
I don't know the 2 groups as well as you do, but I am reading your point loud and clear. As for why the animosity began, it may be cultural or generational. I know swearing and flaming in threads really pushes some people's buttons, (especially parents whose kids participate in Joes and read the site) while it doesn't bother others. This loose language also turned away quite a number of former and incoming members ( I have many PM's to that effect). It sounded more like a locker room than a community. So that certainly has to stop, as it is giving JD a bad name in the greater Joe community. I also know being nit-picky about the rules and calling people out for something minor (posting 4 pics in a row instead of 3 since you're using a dial-up connection from Iraq or something) turns people off, too! Many creative people are sensitive types, and thrive in friendlier environments. And less strict environments. I'm not a strict Admin.
What I really want is what Prince Adam described so well, I'll just quote him:
Quote:
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We didn’t all start out good, hell, my earliest shots were crap! But we didn’t condemn each other for it. Instead we coached our new found friends and cheered on each new shot pushing ourselves to do better. As a result a brotherhood was formed and, yes, it stands today. True story.
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My goal now, and I need your help on this, is to combine the "MSN Group" and the "Flickr group", "Veterans", "Elitists" and those who have no care for any of this political baloney and make one group: JoeDios members.
How can you help? Post more images, dios and threads! Be constructive with your criticism! Don't be an elitist jerk. If there's a policy violation you HAVE to get off your chest, don't play forum cop on your own, PM me about it and I'll deal with it if it warrants it. Keep the sailor talk off the site. My 8 year old son is reading it now, as are the kids of many other members (exceptions for text inside Dios that are off-site. Shipwreck has a mouth like a sailor, I hear
).
But above all else, BE CREATIVE and celebrate each others' creativity!
I am also very open to other ways we can stop being "this group" or "that group" and be JoeDios artists again.