What if ?
 

ok we all know the story how Optimus Prime die in the moive, so gijoe was to follow that, and kill off duke. but hasbro didnt go that way. so duke lives on.
but what if duke did die.? who will be the new first new Sergeant ? and how will gijoe be today ? you see i dont like duke. and i know some of you also dont like him. so do any of you think this may effect the toy line in any way, if thay did kill off that ##@$%%$# of duke.?

Do you want the official answer or the fan-based one?

Cuz the official version was that Falcon would take Duke's place. But the parents and kids who saw TF:Movie had a shtfit and Sunbow had to change things up a bit. ie; no killing of a human being.

But if Duke DID die... I don't know. I've never seen anyone really explore this line of thought.

I LIKE Duke-but I think the answer to your question is the Team buries their friend,remembers what he stood for,and presses on. Scarlett,Stalker,or Gung-Ho would ALL be good choices to take over as First Sergeant........

i can see falcon. but Lieutenant are high then first Sergeant right ?
well as far as the cartoon gos.back in the 80s we had some trouble ,but im suer it wont be a problem today. take DBZ, or naurto, or even todays cartoon.someone is getting kill.

hasbro must love duke.i see more duke and snakeeyes,along with stormshadow
then any of the other joes. as far their friend,remembers him. i dont think thay can give a rats :eek: . if you know what i mean..

Duke is part of Hasbro's CORE. You guys really need to understand that when the corporations became part of the toy scene (ie; Walmart, Target and TRU), they wanted a link between different series of toys. The creation of the CORE is a common knowledge among toy enthusiasts. Let's face it, Star Wars can't sell a 'wave' if there isn't A RECOGNIZABLE NAME. We have Anakin, Yoda, Vader, and ObiWan in every g'damn wave, it seems like.

So somewhere in the GI Joe world, it was decided that such chars like Duke, CC, Destro, Baroness, Scarlet and Snake Eyes were top dogs. HOW they got there, I do not know. But there are a late comers to the GI Joe toy game and all I can think is that Hasbro people went out and asked people who they best recognized. And don't think for a second Hasbro was thinking, "we'll ask about the comic side of things" cuz the cartoon was viewed by far more KIDS. Ask anybody on the street if they remember GI Joe and Duke will come before Hawk and Flagg.

Let me bring this up. Justin and Fred both see this. Most AMERICANS do too. I don't know what GI Joe means to y'all overseas, but the people here have different views. And sometimes, it makes the non-US fans feel like outsiders. There are people who dig the ARAH old skulpts and stand by them no matter what. There are those like me, Justin and Fred who want to see GI Joe progress and not got stuck like it was 1982 or 1986. Hasbro is a business and people gotta understand that.

The 2002+ relaunch was a danged good attempt to try to change GI Joe up and making things hip and cool. A lot of people HATE the nu skulpts. Uhmmmm yeah, as if the old skulpts were working??? Hello, the comic fell and the toy did too. The crapola cartoon by DiC didn't help any but by then, there was a lot of weird things going on. The ARAH remains in my memory and I have no need to relive it. I want to relive old stuff, I can buy videos of Metallica and Maiden. GI Joe needed to progress and while it was very hit n miss, uh, well... uh...

Ok, so now we are hitting the 25th Anniversary of GI Joe. WHy exactly would they experiment w/ something TOTALLY new? It's common consensus that Hasbro wanted to redux the original designs into a new age skulpt. From where I sit, that redux of Snake Eyes (from 1982) is absolutely awesome. It's like, "this is what Hasbro can do NOW w/ the original designs."

Everyone HAS to understand that GI Joe's sales philosophy has changed dramatically over the last few years. I'm not sure why that is or why the heads of GI Joe Hasbro keeps changing. But it was decided at the end of Valor vs Venom that sales were NOT high enough. The stockholders or whoever at Hasbro wanted an overnite success. Sigma6, while planned, got a whole lot of changes and love. For the record, S6 was NOT the overnite success they wanted. I mean, Trader Joes, when they open a store, they expect $150k+ sales that first day. (For the record, some of the Cali stores do $500K+ during X-mas season. THAT is for a store whose hours are 0900-2100; it is NOT 24hr.) If the store doesn't do hot success that 1st day, it's considered a failure. I bring THIS up cuz I see Hasbro pulling the same crap.

The 1st quarter S6 comes out, if it don't do $2 million, then it sucks. Or whatever. It's crap like that that makes me question Hasbro. Remember the TCG? Remember how fast it got pulled???

Back to the 25th Anniversary. It's believed that the old uniforms will get past collectors to look twice. It's believed that the old uniforms will cater to those really hardcore fans who wanted to see the stuff updated. It's believed that GI Joe needed a shot in the arm and S6 was not the correct answer. (I know it sounds like a dis, but it DID bring in a new generation; something that the 2002+ relaunch couldn't do very well.)

How I feel about it is irrelevant. I just know that the most recognizable characters are being utilized and to an extent, that sucks. I don't know how much the BIG 3 are in on this. But I can believe that everything is connected. Walmart needs Joes to sell and their historians know that the ARAH designs worked best. At the same time, GI Joe must go forward so new articulation (albeit, untested) has to be tried out.



Go ahead and try to argue it out. Just blame corporations in the end, ok? :P

I'm going to..
 

I'm going to go ahead and actually state I like duke.. no honestly I do. He was one of the key characters I waited to get when completing series 2. He also remains to be the only figure I have MISB with flag sticker.
Ever since I saw the figure online I thought.. "I want a duke figure complete with US Flag sticker" it was a real great sence of achievement when I actually won him.

As for Duke and the actual subject here.. what would happen if Duke died.. well I guess Falcon or Stalker would be upped. My first guess would be Stalker since we're talking 80s here Stalker actually gets upped to Sergeant at some point anyway right?

So I guess that sorts itself out quite nicely.. now onto the other part of the thread:

you see i dont like duke. and i know some of you also dont like him. so do any of you think this may effect the toy line in any way, if thay did kill off that ##@$%%$# of duke.?

You mentioned you don't like duke.. the character, the figure or both.. this is incredibly vague .. lets say it is both then.. what don't you like about him? The fact the bigshots decided to not kill him off? It's a bit harsh on the character .. because after all its not like he has a say in the matter.. and if he did.. why would he himself admit to wanting to be killed? You mention you don't like him without even giving any reasons to back up why?

I think the first series duke figure and the second release (on card) are great representations of who we see in the comic at the early stages. The gold badges on the chest pocket are a great touch to the figure and the accessories are decent. The character himself is also well thought out.. and is a good addition to the GIJOE team... thats my honest opinion of why I like duke.

To me, Duke had no need to show up as the TOP. Stalker could filled his place.

I think that it would be Flint honestly. In the first episode of Arise, Serpentor, Arise Flint rattled off the chain of command and it was Hawk, Duke, Flint, and Beachhead. However I suppose anyone could be recommended. Funny you should start this thread bravo, I was thinking the same thing but more of what its affect would be on the entire Joeverse, they couldn't just bring Duke back to life like OP.

If Duke died, Cobra would've conquered the world.

I don't know how, but just trust me. The world needs Duke.



(Also, I agree with everything Sonneilon said in his lengthy post.)

In my verse, Falcon would have gotten moved to Top Kick. It's a curious idea to knock off Duke. I'd probably do it but I don't know who would take over. I mean, if I HAD a Falcon figure, I could do it easier and just have Duke in flashbacks if needed. Then again, it's not like Duke has really shown up much in my dios of the last few years. :lol:

Urban Saboteur, see duke should have been killed off. i dont like the joe. theres nothing to him.and im happy that he lost Scarlett, to snackface. what ever side your on cartoon or comic. the top of the matter is he should have die. i rather have flint or falcon do the job.hasbro should see what there doing.you stay on the same joe.time after time. keep revamping him, and the line will be boring,and fans will have it out,seeing the same thing. he needs to go.

It may be one of the Sky Patrol.


Airwave, Dropzone, Skydive are all E-8's (Master Sergeants or First Sergeants).

And Altitude should be Duke's Boss anyway! He's the Top E-9 in the Army according to his file Card ( Sergeant Major of the Army).

Would we go by billet or rank?




That might work, but Falcon is a Commisioned officer. First Sergeant is an Enlisted Position/billet!




And Flint is a Warrant officer. To be put in a 1stSgt position would be a demotion!





That's what I hate the most about using Duke. HE alienates non-white blue eyed aryan america. He looks like a poster boy for Aryan supremacy! The "Perfect" blond haired, blue -eyed master aryan! The GI Joe team is a fairly decent cross setion of America, but by using Duke in EVERY POSTER, EVERY VIDEO COVER, EVERY MAGAZINE Ad, you don't showcase the cultural diversity of GI Joe. And the truth of the Matter is, a First Sergeant would NEVER be in combat with his troops unless it was a MAJOR battle!





Exactly! If it aint as overnight sucess as StarBucks, throw it away! No one in business today believes in making sales that will last for generations! If they can't drain the coffers overnight, it's a flop! That's why companies like Enron and WorldComm came about! How about earning money over TIME???

And as for Sigma six, yeah it brought new blood to the line, but it fractured the line Again!
They fracture it when they went from 12" to 3 3/4", then again when they made a few Extreme Fans and again when they made Sigma six and Sigma Six 2.5. There are too many lines and sizes to like. No matter what the next thing is, they lose fans of the other lines! The 2002 line didin't bring in the fans because there was no comic book, commericials, no 24/7 ad campaign to innundate us with the fact that GI Joe was BACK! They relegated the comics to a small comic book company that few have heard of....and these days, the comic book business is so fractured you can't keep a decent distributer bringing in the same line every week! Their failures are simply from lack of Commitment! They don't wanna put their neck on the line, so they make small gestures in obscure ways and wonder why they can't make sales!

'nuff said!

Ahem. What I didn't put in my original post...

Sigma6 wasn't the overnight success Hasbro wanted. IIRC, there was some sort of shake up at the top and a new GI Joe head came in. Somehow, they got it worked out that 'slow-and-steady' wins the race, not the highest horsepowered entity. So hasbro went back to whatever formula they were using and probably tweaked it.

Keep in mind, the #s that came in for the 2002+ stuff (including VvV) were good. But a bunch of bean counters only see beans and wanted more.

I wouldn't say that S6 fragmented the Joe line much. Hasbro needed to find a way to get to the kids and S6 really worked, believe it or not. It DID alienate the 3.75" fans, yes. But we all knew there was to be a 'hiatus' of 3.75" and it's possible that the S6 era was that hiatus. *shrug*

Also, Hasbro's plan was to put Falcon in Duke's place. That's a fact. Who YOU want to be top kick is an entirely different matter and should be seen as 2 different things. Yes, Hasbro wanted to knock off Duke but the outcry over Optimus dying freaked people out. Right up there w/ the Dixie Chicks dissing the gov't and Michael Jackson liking lil boys.

Now... People are bugged w/ the 25th Anniversary. Why are they going back to the original designs? Why aren't they trying something totally new in terms of themes and whatnot? Well, they did that w/ the 20th Anniversary and it ended up being called GI Joe vs Cobra (w/ t-crotch!). My own feelings say that GI Joe is following the Star Wars and Transformers philosophy. We've seen our fave Joes get a new sculpt/uniform treatment. Just as we've seen, uh, Transformers get all sorts of new versions. SW too, to an extent. Shoot, even He-Man got it and that was by another company! :lol:

I dunno. I'm cool w/ them going backwards for the 25th. They can do whatever they want after they get this out of their system, y'know?

do u know the reson why. the ideas stop. it the same ,from 3 3/4 all the way to Extreme. again thay repete , 3 3/4 back to Sigma 6. these guys that think there doing there jobs ,wrong. there doing the same back in 94, there doing it again,just with diffrent peoples . hasbro needs to look at this , and treat it as if was like a star wars line. thay need to stay with one thing and make it work. the new 4 inch that are comming out are cool and all , but why repete the same thing over. why not new joes.

Cuz the point of the 25th was NOT to do new Joes.

But the problem here too, is that, how many 'new' Joes have been embraced by the older fans? For dudes like Crosshair and Blackout, you get, uh, the V-Troops. Link Talbot. Neurotoxin. Razor Claw. Sure, someone like Widescope only got the get-go cuz Shockwave wasn't available at the time.

IF the 25th A can bring in a whole new generation of fans, then Hasbro can try out new things. Like adding new chars and bringing in vehicles. Problem is, each time they do a new series, they literally start over. Which totally sucks. I have NO IDEA how Transformers can do it, other than they have a larger fanbase (just as SW has THE largest fanbase).

Now, if you want to talk about the end of the original ARAH line, I believe current politics and watchdog groups were making their presence known. AND the Hasbro owners (Justin knows their names, it's two brothers. HAS-something or other + BROthers = HASBRO) have their own standards of what GI Joe is. Ever wonder why they used red and blue lasers instead of real bullets? Ever wonder why almost no one is ever shot in the cartoon?

But at least the 25th isn't starting w/ DEF and NeonGlowForce and stuff, right? :P

oh yeah... NOBODY knows why GI JOe Hasbro messed up the formula. Everyone out there knows that to have a successful toyline, you need a cartoon or movie. And it needs marketing. WHY the duders at GI Joe thought they could get away w/o the normal market strategy is beyond all of us. I agree Bravo. Get the formula and stay with it. (course, the toy analysts say that the toy formula actually changes and GI Joe tends to be 3rd place in terms of priority)

What I don't want to see is what's happened to SW and TF. The multiple confusing lines and whatnot. Classics, Alternators, Movie, This, That, Over THere... SW is just as bad if not worse. But I suppose that's what happens when the SW fans probably outnumber Joe fans 25-1. 50-1? *shrug*

I didn't mean that Flint would be demoted from Warrant Officer, just that he would be promoted to second in command of the Joe team under Hawk.

You know, it really alludes me just WHAT you've got against him Frank...........

I wonder, do you feel the same bile against Superman? He's a boy scout too, only with black hair............


The fact of the matter is, Duke is extremely recognizable for the very fact that he is '6 foot 2, eyes of blue'............much in the same way that the 'hotties' you guys all like to look at...........and honestly?? I've seen you give him more 'face time' with your rants than anyone else has with praise!!!

I think you've got a 'secret crush'!!!! :p

(now I'll just wait for you to 'pi$$' all over what I just wrote............ ;) )

:) :p :D ;) :eek:

Bravo.. but..
 

Ok, based on what I've read so far your two posts have been you complaining about how duke should of been killed off and you don't like him because he's been the constant face for 20+ years.. the top of the matter as you put it is that he should die.. well.. sorry to really rub this in.. but he wont die.. clearly hasbro thought enough of duke to include him in their plans for the 25th Anniversary.. I don't see a rock n roll figure in there.. or say lady jaye?

Again.. your two posts that you contributed have said you hate the figure/character of duke because theres nothing to him?

I'd like you to elaborate.. nothing in his character?

If your attacking duke's character I'm going to be massively surprised.. he has alot more panache than say a rock n roll or grand slam.. both of which have been redone. Duke is a classy character and the v1 figure was picked as the forefront of the ultimate guide to gi joe!

Just because he's a recogniseable person and hasbro keeps reusing him doesn't mean you should hate him.. if anyone you should be hating the design and marketing people at hasbro!! ;)
Rich

there is a lady jaye figure. i think there should be a rock n roll, but he never got any time because of characters like duke and snake eyes. but i think the few comics he was in with clutch made him a fan favorite.

dude lady jay is in the 25th Anniversary. sooner or later duke will be gone. it seems that just about every one here dont like duke. and why compare rock n roll to duke. you got to be kidding me. rock n roll will make monkey meat out of duke.
there a hell of a lot more to roll and other joes. then duke.
and as for the ultimate guide to gi joe. with duke on the cover. the book is cool and all that. the book would have been 10 more better with flint on the cover.
hasbro will see it,sooner or later. keep putting ths :eek: in every thing.the line will die again and again till thay see it. like i said before thay need to treat the line like star wars.

Yes, I tend to take offense to "pretty boys". I can't stand Jeff Gordon, Oscar De LaHoya, Grant Hill, Kevin Costner or any of the other "Poster boys". Why? Because you have people who are better in the sport, comic, team etc that work harder and are all around better than these guys, but the press loves them because of the pretty faces! I hate the politics of press. We sold the american dream down the toilet with these guys. I mean, why work your @$$ off being the best at what you do when a mediocre knock off will grab all the attention because he's a pretty face! I never liked Superman because he only has ONE weakness...Kryptonite. Yet every enemy he comes up against knows this and never defeats him. I prefer guys like the Punisher and Batman, vigalantes who are just human.

And FYI, I never was about the tall Blonds. I prefer chicks like Jeanne Garafalo, Selma Hyack or Dana Delaney. I wouldn't touch Paris Hilton with my ten foot pole! LOL!


It's not that I don't like Duke as a Character, I just hate him being the "posterboy" for GI Joe.

.

(ender098)I never liked Superman because he only has ONE weakness...Kryptonite. Yet every enemy he comes up against knows this and never defeats him. I prefer guys like the Punisher and Batman, vigalantes who are just human.


ender super man die in the hands of doomsday. even thou he came back. and as for Punisher and Batman, these guys rock. and lets not for get nick furry.

wow, i agree with everything you just said, and i mean everything from jeff gordon to paris hilton (hate them darn skinny chicks who act like food is an enemy). people like the ones mentioned get the fame because its embedded into our minds that tall underweight blonds are what we are supposed to think is attractive. girls think that looking like the hilton of any other unhealthy girl is what boys like. and yes it is unhealthy, also studies have shown that one a scale from 1 to 10 girls see themselves as a 7 in the weight class. their actually around 5, they think guys like a 3 and want to get to a 4, when guys like a 6.and this is not my opinion, it is a psychological fact. i havent saw many girls these days who want the blond poster boy either, everyone knows girls dont like the goodguy, never really have and never will. thats why i will always like the gritty characters like letherneck, gung-ho and beach head, and the odd funny guy like jackie chan and quick kick. take flint, i hated him in the toons because he was like duke, just with dark hair. now, with his kill all tude and scar, hes my fave character in the comics.

You also have to account that..
 

You also have to account that looks sell,
this is another reason why rock n roll or armadillo or grunt aren't the poster boys of G.I.JOE ;)
As for lady jaye being in the 25th Anniversary.. I dunno.. i didn't see her mentioned but if she is i could think of probably 5 or 10 other figures/characters more deserving to go in there..

like it or lump it duke will be around for a while.. no matter what type of complaints you have about him.. there must be more people that like him than hate him.. otherwise nobody would buy him and he'd drop out of the order of core characters.

Duke is a popular character and he's a leader and he's classy.. so go ahead hate all you want on him.. ;)
Rich

rich,Duke is a popular character and he's a leader and he's classy, you are out of your mind, the only reson a lot of fans buy him ,hes part of the collection. dukes a pertty boy. thats why he made it so far.ok i can see that, and for the joes that arnt poster boys ,thoese are the heros. not pretty boy duke, and roll can still kick his :eek:

Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, SUPERMAN, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, SUPERMAN, SUPERMAN, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, SUPERMAN, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, SUPERMAN, SUPERMAN, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, SUPERMAN, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, SUPERMAN, SUPERMAN, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, SUPERMAN, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, SUPERMAN, SUPERMAN, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, SUPERMAN, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, SUPERMAN, SUPERMAN, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, SUPERMAN, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, SUPERMAN, SUPERMAN, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, SUPERMAN, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, SUPERMAN, SUPERMAN,Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, SUPERMAN, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, SUPERMAN, SUPERMAN...................................

I don't see hasbro getting rid of Duke anytime soon. He's pretty much become the icon of GI Joe and man, to switch it up would be like trying to pull a GI Joe Extreme or DiC GI Joe again.

Odd, I NEVER mentioned once in my post that you guys were into 'tall blondes' or 'P**** H*****'....................I just generalized them as 'hotties'.............I let you all decide what YOUR PERSONAL determination was.................


That you would automatically go to 'tall blondes' and the 'PH' card, now THAT'S rather interesting..............


And 'FYI'?? DO NOT go after Superman!! I'm serious............ :mad:

And just out of curiousity Frank, HOW MANY Duke's do you have in your collection????? :confused: I mean, I know you don't USE him in your dios and pics, but still...............with your massive collection and 'noncommittal' attitude toward this character, I'm just curious if you bought all 5,387,451,902 versions????????

maybe we should do a vote, but agree to disagree.

ok ill start the vote poll in a new thread. im wondering why superman got in this.
but any way thanks lehsreh.

lehsreh stared the poll.

Thats
 

No he didnt stared it.. he started it .. but apparently i'm out of my mind for liking a likeable GIJOE icon.. :rolleyes:
Whatever..
Rich

Alright everyone.......................GO TO YOUR CORNERS!!!!!


We're arguing about T-O-Y-S!!!

And I will not tolerate berating someone for their spelling!!! Completely uncalled for!!!


This needs to stop now, before it becomes overtly ridiculous.............(duh!)

The fact is, whether you love or hate certain characters, you embrace them as a part of the whole...........and in the end, that's all that truly matters.

:p I was wondrin' HOW much longer our Moderatrix was gonna let this one run........ :p