Differing views
 

You should probably both accept you have differing views on it and move on.. :)

No - I pointed out which were facts and which were opinions quite clearly. - The scale and poseability.
The rest are up for debate - I strongly feel that the 25th are more rigid and prone to not breaking as the original line was with crotches and thumbs (for example).

I do see your point - but it actually is a fact that they are a closer scale - I can speak from 3 years of experience at art school for that one.
And I still think they offer a lot more poseability then the originals - but as Urban Saboteur pointed out this might be up for debate - Though I'll address that issue later and show why more points of articulation gives better poseability.

My point was not that your criticisms here was non-constructive - quite the opposite - but that in general we get a lot of bashing for the 25th line even in places where it shouldn't be.

I never disrespected your views, in fact I agreed with most of them and even said that I respected your point of view because you came from a background of collecting joes over time. Respect mine please.


Its still civil ;) I will however agree to disagree if something gets to heated and leave it at that - right now we seem to be having a difference in taste is all.

Just to clarify..
 

Oh and to clarify.. i posted to try and humble the convo.. i wasn't attempting to throw my weight around.. truth is i dont think i could take another man/joe drama :o :)

Good call, Rich. I'm not in the mood for another drama/fight to break out.

I think it gets old when people are constantly bashing the 25th. You don't see me bashing the ARAH or the folks who want ARAH back. Cuz I DON'T want to see those molds again. This is, of course, a guy who keeps ARAH in his memories and the Bastard Era were the bomb. The 25A, it's funny, I really can't recommend the line to friends. I cite that there are a few good figures and I don't know if there are more misses than hits (or vice versa).

I do know that Craig bought the 1st 2 5-packs and therein lies most of his opinions. This is how I see it (hope Craig doesn't mind)

Generalities.
-The figures can't look up or down very well (bastard era had that problem too).

-Some figures have special sculpted hands which means different weapons don't work in them (ARAH had this too at times).

-The redux of outfits (Even tho this might be following the SW/TF idealogy)

-size variance. Doesn't fit in with the other eras (yet, maybe they aren't supposed to be mixed. :p )

-Lack of ability to sit down (tho it's been fixed for the most part)

Specifics.

-Duke's arms can't bend worth crap (unless you cut the bicep).

-Roadblock has skinny legs, lack of arm articulation and a goofy left hand.

-Gung Ho has lack of arm articulation and looks kinda like someone else.

-Scarlet, I'm not sure.

-Snake Eyes, not sure how Craig can complain.

-Cobra Commander has a closed fist?

-Destro's a tad thin?

-Cobra Trooper, not sure how Craig can complain.

-Baroness... We won't even go there.

-Storm Shadow, not sure what the problem is.



I don't remember if Craig got any of the singles. But as some have said, the figures that first came out and those coming out now (uh, give or take the Viper) are pretty awesome. It's still hit and miss as far as I can tell and the variants of figures are pretty annoying.

BUT at least there is NOW a huge separation 'tween ARAH and 25A, right? You won't get 'em mixed up!!! It was stated by TRU that they hate collectors. There was a thread on the JBL about that one...

Didn't think you were ;) We all need to "cool our heads" when it becomes to heated - And with something we love and pour our hearts (and money) into its bound to be touchy on a few things. I'll promise from my side that there will be no drama, just debate ;)

I'll post pictures later with an explanation on articulation to prove that the 25th have better poseability. For now I have a dog to walk (I'm dog watching this weekend for a friend) so I can't post to much or to long (the dog has ADHD and is hyper-active)

Look, it hasn't been anything but civil; a little warm perhaps, but I for one would not let things spiral into personal insults or childish garbage like that. We disagree, and that's it. I respect people's opinions that differ from mine even though I will never agree with them, and expect only the same in return. I can be a stubborn, hard headed old b@stard, but you won't hear "your opinion sux" or the like from me.

We are very much alike then ;)
Well after having a dog with ADHD which is hyper too all day as well as airsofting for 4 hours I'm pretty tired right about now :eek:
I'll throw up some pictures and an explanation on why more points of articulation will lead to better posability (as well as show the new 25th's can look up just as well as the old ones can). Hope everyone is enjoying their weekend!

And o-ring or not, this is still a great hobby ;) (I just got my Marauder order today :D)

I voted to bring back the o-ring -- must say I don't really appreciate the blatant bias in the wording of the poll questions, basically saying that 25th has been forward progress and anyone who doesn't like it is closed-minded. I've never seen ANYONE say they don't like 25th just because it's different, they usually back up their opinion with quite specific reasons.

And I now feel more qualified in my own opinion, because...

I NOW OWN SOME 25TH FIGURES!!!

They feel all spindly; a lot of their articulation (arms especially) doesn't move smoothly, they want to be locked in a few particular positions; they hold their weapons like they're scared of them; Fred/CG's lower leg & knee popped out of his thigh the first time I tried to bend them. And, they all look like they need their upper torso pushed about half an inch further down onto their lower section.

I'll get BATs, maybe characters who've never had a figure before since I'm not going to get them any other way, but I'm not encouraged to replace any of my existing collection, or even get 25th versions of figures I DON'T have already.

Vehicles, though -- really wish I could find those...!

You didn't disagree with me here, only that you thought it didn't make them better.
Here's a few example of more natural poses because of the extra articulation.
(storm shadow and jinx better posing) (flint natural shooting pose) (storm shadow and jinx better posing 2)

(Flint aiming)
the 25th flint gets his gun in his shoulder and can aim through the sight and holds his gun in a natural way
(other flint aiming)
The same goes for this one, only his other hand is at an awkward angle (no wrist movement)

(dialtone not aiming)
Dialtone can't look through his sights, and does not hold a very natural pose.



I won't disagree completely with you here, just say that the original line has the same problem only lower down - view example here:
(looking up belly)



I personally don't find the man boobs to be such a huge problem, but I guess this is a taste thing, point of fact is that the 25th are more

true anatomically then their earlier brethren even with the man boobs. (but it is a heroic line, so take that with some grain of salt.)



True, but I'm chalking this one up to taste differences - I really don't like how the o-ring torso suddenly just ends and you see the

opening and o-ring when leaning the figures back.



Agreed :)




Agreed :) Taste issue again - or personal preference by any other name



Here I have to say that you are wrong, and I'll prove it with pictures. He has actually the same range of movement as the older figures.
see here:
(Stormy looking up)
in the picture jinx actually can't look up at all!



Trouble? I've never had any trouble with them, they have longer legs so not all accessories fit them is all. See even the "diaper" 25th can

sit down (flint is one of these)

(Sitting Down)



I think I've proven that some of those issues were not completely accurate, whilst the rest was a taste/personal preference thing.




Agreed on all points :)




Indeed :) And again don't take this reply personally, you just pointed out a few things that I think most nay sayers to the 25th line have
a problem with.



All in all I think some of the "old school" collectors need to convince themselves not to buy the 25th because of the economic impact on

their wallet - so they try to build up under the theory that the 25th are an inferior product to the original line.
I'm saying maybe, MAYBE as toys, but for collectors the 25th should be the best thing since sliced bread - this is just my personal opinion

and all the taste/preference things come to mind.

it all boils down to taste/personal preference if you ask me.
The older lines had problems with thumb and crotch breaking as well as a few loose limbs from time to time.
So far my 25th have experienced very few loose limbs (only 3 or 4 out of probably 50-60 figures - and not those that I use the most) and no

breakages - But this might be my handling of them as an adult so I won't say that for sure (anybody with kids who plays with 25th can chime in with a view point on this).
I also really don't like the scale of the original line as opposed to the new 25th - but I prefer things to come off as natural as possible, so that really is a personal taste/preference thing. Again after having done art for 3 years at school you get kind of 4n4l about such things

(yes I just leeted to avoid a bad word :p)

I will however firmly believe that if some of the nay sayers pick up a few of the 25th and take a few photographs with them, you will see

that they are superior when it comes to photography as opposed to the old school stuff. - The molds are better, the expressions are pretty

good as well (though you get some classic faces from the older lines, I never really liked the overly humorous faces on them - even as a kid

I never got why Flint was smirking all the time.)