JoeDios.com Forums - Hammerfel.... Let's do this

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Some observations about life, the site, internet and helped by not being on any medication at the moment (shhhhhhh don't tell the pyschiatrists) :p

People say they want honesty. What they really are looking for is affirmation. Honesty and truth can be brutal at times, and if you're not ready for it, you want your mommy fast.

When young, single and childless I had time to do stuff that seemed important like chat online (mostly with people at FFURG.com and ex-college friends), watch a lot of TV and Movies, and . Now with a mortage, wife, and kid I'm lucky to watch the local weather these days when not in the lab. When the kid naps, if I don't have yard or house work to do, I customize, take pics, edit pics. Would I like to get to know more here personally? Sure. But knowing your work for now is all I can, and all I can speak to with honesty and occassionally Carlin-esqe sarcasm (see above about honesty).

You don't learn or get better by being successful. You have to fail. It is the only way to learn. Eight plus years of neuroscience, chemistry, and pharmacology research is more than enough to back that up with peer reviewed work if life hasn't taught you it yet. From time to time, throw up a failure to see what went wrong, and if anyone out there can help. You never know when you'll find the right mentor and they'll get everything going better.

I mentioned FFURG above. There the rule is if you're going to just compliment (or insult) don't post. If you're going to explain why something is good, what you liked, what you didn't, etc, please go ahead. It takes time, practice, and patience to learn to post questions like that. It also takes a thicker skin and more self-critical eye from the picture poster. But it helps everyone. Those who lack the skills start asking how something is done, the "artist" has should explain, others can learn, copy, and make better work themselves. You may not be able to see what the picture poster means for several attempts, but each one will bring you closer to your personal expectations, and that is all that matters. Whether this would work or could be tried here sounds like what a great number of posters have suggested, but that lies in others hands.

Ok, now that is done. Thanks to Hammerfel for the site. Thanks to the contributors. Thanks to those who have commented on my small amount of things. I've thought about everything said that is constructive, may not have incorporated it, but definitely filing it away for sometime. That's just what's in my mind, it could be schziopherenic.

Quote:

•People say they want honesty. What they really are looking for is affirmation. Honesty and truth can be brutal at times, and if you're not ready for it, you want your mommy fast.

This should be gospell

Just to chime in, I don't care what one faction or another says or does, I am out of it. I got no problems with anyone that has posted here, in fact I only have problmes with 2 people on the interwebs and neither of them are here (so I will not bring it here).

But I dispise internet drama, I got sucked into some of it a few years ago and since then I just keep away when it rears its ugly head, which is what I am doing now with this situation. It's a waste of time, energy and emotion that can be better spent in other pursuits.

Quote:

•When young, single and childless I had time to do stuff that seemed important like chat online (mostly with people at FFURG.com and ex-college friends), watch a lot of TV and Movies, and . Now with a mortage, wife, and kid I'm lucky to watch the local weather these days when not in the lab. When the kid naps, if I don't have yard or house work to do, I customize, take pics, edit pics. Would I like to get to know more here personally? Sure. But knowing your work for now is all I can, and all I can speak to with honesty and occassionally Carlin-esqe sarcasm (see above about honesty).

Exactly, real life is the most important thing in the world, no one ever said on thier death bed "I wish I had worked more." While we do this stuff we do for fun, the greatest fun is the smile of your child or a loving touch from you wife, ect.

Hammer, let me join the rest to say thanks for the site, I enjoy it here and enjoy posting my stuffs, I am terrible at commenting on everone ele's projects, see the above statement as to why. But this site is a great conglameration of creative minds and projects.

Where did it all come from?

I'm one of the oldest members here, I'm on flickr, I chat at MSN and go frequently around other G.I. Joe forums. Why am I always the last one to know about this kind of dramas?

I don't see cliques, at least I'm always posting on everyone's job. Probably one of the most active in this role here and I don't feel this groups. Maybe there are, but it is normal to have groups inside a greater group. I wish I'd a better english to explain myself or even to talk more with everyone.

We say here in Brazil something like that: We are searching horns in horse's head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Adam

Man to man, and admin to admin. This conversation needs to be had and it needs to be seen. My intent is merely in the spirit of heartfelt honesty and I present my thoughts, and the thoughts of others, both with us and not, from a perspective of (what some will call "questionable") integrity. We don’t know one another on a first name basis so I’m going to stick w/ "Hammer". You may call me Xander, if you like.

Hammer, I'm going to level with you here.
I think you're cool people, and many others that I associate myself with do as well. This site is in essence ingenious and the only one of it's kind at no mistake. But there's dissention in your ranks. There has been for a while now. But ever since Craig and others started going to Flickr it's been brewing over. We're known as the "Flickr gang" now and god knows what else we're referred to on MSN chat. Our migration had nothing to do with JDs outside of the fact that we no longer had to deal with the Elite.

The Elite. Or so they would like to think. There are a handful of members here who have apparently been here since the site started and they act as though that gives them some due sense of entitlement. They only rate pics and rarely comment much less post their own. But the second one of them does post a pic they all flock to it though like it's the best shot ever. Truth be told, any of the "Flick gang" could go toe-toe with said elite any day of the week.

You see years ago, while these elitists were hiding behind their instant messages and their inboxes trying to pass their “final word” on the pics, WE became each other’s support. Guys like Outrider, Scarrviper, Flatline, Roland_Thompson_Gunner, Dreadnok Dread, (to name a few, very few) became the main posters and were always trying to help each other out compared to the others sitting in rowboats shooting spitballs at the battleships taking over. We didn’t all start out good, hell, my earliest shots were crap! But we didn’t condemn each other for it. Instead we coached our new found friends and cheered on each new shot pushing ourselves to do better. As a result a brotherhood was formed and, yes, it stands today. True story.

Where the animosity or jealousy toward us stems from I cannot say, whether it’s one generation hating the next I don’t really know. But it’s there and has been for years. Now that quite a few people have moved to Flickr and only seldom post on JDs the animosity from the elitists has grown stronger. We exist without their self-fulfilling sense of approval, we’ve angered the gods and inadvertently at that. A line has been drawn but we didn’t draw it.

Hammer, you’re a Flickr user, hell you’re a member of Outrider’s O-Ring group, you know it’s ultimately aimed and based around the art and enjoyment of photography. That’s why we’re there. We aren’t anti-JDs. Oh, it’ll look like that from afar, and yes some people are fed up with certain members here, but ultimately this is where we all started out and hold no real issues with the spirit and concept of this site.
Right now for us Flickr’s the kind of place this spot has all the potential to be, an artist colony full of friends sharing a common hobby. Instead JoeDios gets riddled by internet politics and wielded like a weapon against those who would really just like to get on with the fun. Sad, but again true.

I expect full on that these elitists will standup and deny any and all accusations and truths brought on by this post and when they do, you, Hammer, will know good and well who they are (should they have the stomach to expose themselves). But I don’t stand alone and I speak for the dozens who have stood together over the years.

Should you like to continue this we can do so via PM, or you can visit the O-Ring and see that it’s all about the fun and the hobby. Certainly not about choosing sides or declaring war on one another.

Very well put Xander.

I created my Flickr account in order to keep in contact with Craig (Outrider) whose access to Joedios was getting weaker and weaker due to internet issues. I believe that's why most of the "flickr gang" went there to begin with. The second reason we went there was because of the animosity created by the fact that we don't like the 25th/movie style of figures. We prefer our vintage style o-ring stuff. Joedios became more and more flooded with average shots featuring them to the point of it being bogged down with 25th stuff. Things were fine until some arguments began and it got worse with the NFO vs. OWN war. It got more and more personal. I think that was what ultimately cemented the divide in this community. There are other things, but this is the aspect that hasn't been brought up yet. The fact is that some people have rubbed other people the wrong way and now Joedios is forever cursed by it. Craig's passing didn't help either. I said this once and I'll say it again. I can't hate this site. It is where I met some of the best of friends, and I would be nowhere without it. I could go on more, but I usually stay out of the politics around here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarrviper

We prefer our vintage style o-ring stuff.

I have always been curious about this. What is it with the new figure designs that o-ring fans simply don't like?

My background:
I started with o-rings as I collected vintage stuff when it originally came out. I still have almost all of mine, but the o-rings are breaking and a lot of the screws are rusting, so I fear taking them out of their boxes. Everytime I touch one I'm risking them breaking, and then have to go to the hardware store to find an o-ring.

What I see:
When the 25th's came out, they didn't look too great. Cobra Commander's head was way small, and then the wrists of many looked like they got slashed. but all in all the design has been improving, they are getting more rugged and articulation is getting greater. Not as easy to torso swap like can do with the o-rings, but more easily to customize with other toy lines from other companies. They are a little taller than the o-rings, which means can't fit in the vintage vehicles without retooling. There are pros and cons.

What I do:
I, for one, tend to mix-and-match. One cool o-ring that doesn't exist in the new design is the Techno-Viper. Has anyone noticed I tend to use mine, and original vintage without any stress cracks) from time to time? I have/am doing modern versions of one, but they don't have the unique look as the vintage one. But I mix-and-match, and I've seen some folks mix-and-match new VAMPs and other modern vehicles and equipment with the o-rings.

There is no "cemented divide". This site was not "forever crushed". You are talking yourself into a mindset that does not reflect reality. Heck, look at this thread. Half the people had no idea this was going on. So Hasbro changed toy construction styles. Big deal. Worse things have happened in the world than that! :)

I will always be a o-ring collector. I have retired my vintage collection to the display case. I got tired of breaking crotches & thumbs, loosing weapons and risking rusted screws for a photograph. The newer stuff doesn't have the value to me that my vintage stuff does, I like customizing them and could care less if I loose a weapon (I re-arm most of them anyway). From a photographers point of view you can't beat the new stuff, they pose well, no unsightly rivets and the joints are hidden very well. As a collectible, o-ring all the way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammerfel

The divide has calmed down a lot but it did exist, especially last year. I just feel that the site's community has lost some of its camaraderie. I'm not being delusional. I've been on this site long enough to witness all kinds of crazy things. I am hopefull that things will get better here in time.

And I will never be a fan of the new construction style :D

I did just wanna make a point about the NFO/oWn thing. It was never my intent for that to cause an ACTUAL divde in the site, it was more about us having fun with everyone's different collecting style. Hell, I meant for it just to be a week long event that maybe we did once a year or something. (I even PMed Craig to head up the oWn side of things, but he just wanted to watch the wackiness ensue). If people do feel it was a cause (or furthered the cause) of a schism, I'm really sorry.

Just wanted to throw that out there. :D Just where my head was at the time was a lil FUN rivalry at the time, like shirts versus skins type deal. But I think we can all agree it didn't really work that way. My bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordRaven

I understand. It began as a lot of fun. Heck, I posted quite few shots for it right when it started. However the constant rule changes killed it quickly. I think several members took the whole thing the wrong way and it did create a lot of friction, even if it was subtle and isolated.