PLEASE! :mad:

To me the two are completely incomparable. Here's a prime example:



I love both figures a lot. In fact vintage Fett is my favorite figure from that line, but he's by no means comparable to a counterpart that came some 28 years after, nor visa versa. Two separte eras, two separate lines. You can't blame the oiginals for there sculpting "imperfections", in the 80s they were the sh!t.

It's a pretty even split with this as far as love vs. hate. In the end it'l be "agree to disagree" which what I've settled upon.

I've stated many times, the ARAH is part of my childhood. THe 2002+ stuff (the bastard era, eh?) was my way back in. A lot of the figures were bulked up (which they needed to be, imo), had better sculpting, outfits, etc. There WERE a lot of hit and misses. But I found the ARAH stuff looked like lil sausage links (ie; no shape) when compared to the Theme years.

The 25A are great but they serve a different purpose for me. I still have decided if I really want to do a dio with them. I've been buying up a LOT of stuff on ebay as of late. What that means is that, I see how ARAH collectors didn't like the 2002+ stuff. They wanted what they knew best. To an extent, I'm the same way. Yeah, the Cobra Trooper (25A) is nice and all, but if I can't get them in bulk AND at a lower price point, I'd rather go with the DTC Blueshirts! Which kinda means, my dios will most likely cater to the Theme Era over 25A. But the 25A are nice.

I was out in Glasgow the other day getting up to date with the Joe comics. It's a bit far to go for the comics I suppose, but on the other hand I got everything I was looking for.

Quite by chance I found another comic shop, someway away from the usual areas of shopping in Glesga. Anyway I went in and to my horror I saw two Commando Sigma 6 figures. Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow. Thats the first time I have saw them here in Scotland and I hope it's the last! It did however make me ask the guy in the store if he had any other Joe items...

He did have, two weeks before my visit unfortunately! They had the 25th Anniv stuff and I had missed it by 14 days or so! Bugger! I was genuinely disapointed! I do hate the figures with a passion. But I really would have bought some. Just to see if they are really as bad as they look. Also from a collectors point of view I'd like to have the 25th anniv stuff boxed, as it does mean something to me. Just a shame Hasbro made an arse of it!

I find myself almost surprised though, that I was actually disapointed when the guy said he was sold out. I never expected to find any Joe's at all.

Maybe I'm a closet lover of the 25th stuff? :eek: I hope not! :o

Dave :D

I'm still disappointed.
 

I'm still disappointed we didn't get the final product we were promised waaay back in January. :(
The pictures we were shown initially and the product promised isn't what consumers have ended up with. I still remain overly cynical towards the 25th line.
Infact 15 years ago i would of sawn my arm off, poked myself in the eyes and added vinegar to several contusions to my scrotum to get some gijoe at retail even at release.. it's come down to me looking at the new figures with such contempt.. here is why:

Articulation improved significantly since the 80s. - Ok that's good they've identified that under today's current action figure standards the 80s figures just aren't going to cut it. So they tweak and redesign the whole figure but keep the character based the same.
This would work had the articulation not encountered any problems. Now by fair play lets say if it was a new company we give them a decent cut.. I mean.. it's not like hasbro are new to this market? They've been designing figures and releasing them at retail for over 20 years. So it's not like they couldn't notice the elbow problem, the beehatch tits (manflab) or the lack of seating.

Secondly.. over all the lines they've released they seem to be riding on the nostalgia thing. I'm still worried that those looking at these figures and buying into the line are doing so without looking at the overall product.

I want hasbro to get this right, I want a gi joe figure I can be proud of and want a product that the majority of fans will be happy with.

Going onto the O-ring .. or lack of o-ring in the new figures, this worries lots of old style figure collectors, or purists as they probably see themselves. Figures in general can be just as moveable without o-ring. The design on some WCW figure I saw made by marvel a while back caught my attention. It didnt use O-ring but it was of similar torso constructions and design to the gi joe of 25th Anniversary style.
Had the actual design and torso been good and actually benefited the figure, had the figure not had such hideously underdeveloped muscles.. in some cases Gung-Ho. Hasbro will get this right, they'll make changes to the figures as they already have started to realise.. but in all real honesty..
WHY .. why must they release at retail figures from the beginning that have such huge design flaws?

I can't say that the figures don't look refreshing or different, and in all fairness sometimes you have to take a gamble and hasbro have done that, they've gambled big time by changing the figure the way they have they've signalled their intentions at moving the toyline forward.

Those wanting RAH sculpt style figures released at retail better pray for a VR machine or time travelling machine because as much as the truth hurts.. this isn't going to happen.. ;)

I do think deep down under the horrible mess theres a figure line worth saving on the 25th line. Maybe when the movie comes out they'll redesign some areas and improve them.

I have issues with certain figures that have been released. Lots of people love the 25th Firefly, I can't stand him. His arms are way too skinny for a start.
I could sit here and pick a flaw with each 25th figure if I wanted, but most who have contributed to the thread know exactly the frustrations that are set amongst the fans of the older figures and the line so it's not needed.

Hasbro are actually behind in toy manufacturing and ideas, over the last few weeks i've seen figures that are way better articulated and poseable than the 25th stuff, they work and are in scale, they aren't owned by Hasbro but they are made overseas.

What really disappoints me is that they seem to be waiting on the film now, to further expand the line and releases, rather than introduce the comic or the cartoon to back it up.. the reality is that nostalgia will only last so long.. then when the buyers have ran out of steam or got frustrated with hasbro's lazyness and repaints.. they'll drop the line like they did back in 94/95.

I'll just buy the figures from characters that I like and just if they come out in a good way for me. But what I was really expecting for the 25th was something like the old comic packs.

Hasbro could at least keep up with the comic packs like on VvsV and DTC for the old sculpt lovers like me and others here.

You won't "catch hell" from me for voicing a valid opinion! I agree to an extent, and ARAH figures were never perfect (what toy is?), but for me they are a heck of a lot better than the 25th stuff.

Oh they are Dave, they are! :rolleyes:

Craig, don't you only have the 1st 2 5-packs? Those are pretty bad examples when compared to the stuff that's been coming out recently. I can't even tell toy collectors (be it joe fans or just toy fans) to look for those 5-packs. Even the 1st wave is so-so. But once you get to the Beach Head and the Zartan waves, they are pretty darn good. By now, you've probably seen the Wild Bill figure coming out. That's a great looking figure right there.

I know they have made some improvements to the figures, G, but I'm just not a fan of the new construction, "cartoonish" styling or larger size. I already have all of the characters anyway, and I refuse to start my collection all over again just because Hasbro decided on a new scale. I have seen the pics of the new stuff, and I'm not impressed; there's nothing there to change my mind.

Nah, you're not gonna catch hell. You're right. The new line is superior in a number of respects, what irks me is they don't match even in SIZE with my old figures. I've collected since 1982, and it'a like Hasbro is saying, "Thanks for the Loyalty, now throw everything out and start again!"

I just got used to those old dumpy looking figures, now If I do a Dio, and I put figures from the two lines together, WTF? Destro just got drafted for the NBA? There are a few I couldn't live without, like Pimp Daddy and the New Mold Serpentor...and I wanna see how this 25th Bat will look! If he towers over figures, it's ok! He's NOT HUMAN...but having a 6"3' Tunnel rat is just WRONG! If I wanna keep the figures in scale, I have to buy a COMPLETELY new collection, and I'm not gonna do that after years of supporting GI Joe!

SO TRUE SO TRUE. I HAVE NOTICED A LOT OF IMPROVEMENT FROM THE FIRST 5 PACKS TO THE NEWER ONES COMING OUT NOW. AND OUTRIDER, I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU DONT CARE SO MUCH FOR THEM, IF YOU HAVE THEM ALL WHY GET THEM. BUT FOR ME I NEVER HAD A HUGE COLLECTION AS A KID, DONT REALLY HAVE ONE NOW, I JUST WANT SOME OF THE ONES I NEVER HAD. THATS WHY IM WAITING FOR BLUDD.

I'd write something in this thread but you already wrote what I'd like to say!

In my opinion, the 25th line is something like Sgt Savage or Sigma 6, I'll not start another joe collection that can be dead as soon as the sales decreases or a new style arrives.

I'm not telling that Hasbro is doing something wrong or not but it doesn't work for me.

Was it to difficult to make new 3.75 ARAH style figures?

I don't think so.

I still think that the upgrade in size is to differentiate between GI Joe from two other toylines out there; Star Wars and BBI. And there are apparently Marvel and Wrestling figure that will also go 1/18. So to make GI Joe different, up the size. And the sculptors are notorious for saying that the bigger the figure, the more detailing they can do.

I personally don't mind the larger scale. I prefer it only in that I don't mix the different eras. But uh, yeah, where were we???

But that's what sucks...if you mess with the size, you take away any chance to use other figures as extras....Is GI Joe gonna make cops, Construction guys or Paramedics? If not, they better keep them the same size as "The Corps". I mean if all action figures were the same size, you could have tons of fun making new customs....but this "someone else is making 3 3/4", so we'll go 4.1" is nuts! Hell, just go back to 12"! That's what GI Joe Started as!

As for detailing, BBI has done wonders with detail on their 3 3/4" figures...better than any of the Arah characters....admit it, Hasbro just needs a new cash cow!

And have you seen Wave 7? Snake eyes V4???? Already! And Duke from the Cartoon? We bringing back Cobra La? How cheesey! BTW, how many dukes is that so far? I count 3 Cobra commanders, 4 Snake eyes, and 3 dukes.....Anyone seen Grunt? just curious! Guess I have to wait until DTC wave 4 from MC comes out...or the next Con to get figures.... :(

The Hasbro guys aren't thinking about how GI Joe fits into other toylines. They could care less. Check this thread out to give you some hints at things...

http://joebattlelines.com/phpBB3/vi...&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

BTW, the Snake Eyes in question isn't a straigt up repaint. It's another version that comes with butterfly knives. Hasbro's SEv4 is different than yojoe's definition of SEv4, I believe.




I never said Hasbro wasn't trying to make GI Joe a cash cow. I can totally understand the change of scale. But I've come to the conclusion that GI JOe is NOT hard military. It may have started closer to that but now... GI Joe is a monster. It's not like you'd ever see BBI do a VvV sort of thang! :p

Maybe (probably) I'm old fashioned, but I like my Joes "hard military", the more realistic, the better. No mystical ninjas, no venom serum, no mechs, no shape shifters etc, etc. Stuff like 21st Century Toys 1/18 military line looks awesome, it's just a pity they are so fragile. If some toy company ever comes up with a sturdily-built, realistic modern military line, they'll get my cash. That's one of the reasons I dislike the 25th stuff, the sculpts are just too cartoonish. :rolleyes:

Oi! Looks like I need to start a BBIDIos website......
Man, it sucks that big business makes these decisions....what right do boardroom stiff have to decide what characters get offered? Sounds to me like WalMart and Target want to run GI Joe into the $hitter so The Corps and Forces Of Valor don't have any competition......

What was funny was when Star Wars came out in 1977, if you missed the first wave of figures, you missed Darth Vader....and a lot of people were upset about that....now,it's just the opposite...WHAT??? Neon Pink, McQuarrie Alternate Universe Darth Vader? God, don't we have enough! I mean every so often, I remember Kenner putting out Wave 1 Charatcers again, but they were pretty good about not flooding the Market with 5,000 versions of the same Character until "The Power of The Force " collections came out.....

It's getting silly.....GI Joe is gonna die soon unless Hasbro decides to get some Gajones and TELL companies what they will produce. In the old days, didn't manufacturers go to the company with..."this is what we got...you want some to stock your shelves?" Now it's like...."Hey, Walmart....what can we make for your board members that they will approve for sale"? WTF? When did retailers get to tell manufacturers what to produce?

Gee....hmmmm, I'm gonna take Duke, Snake eyes, Gung ho and Duke...and Snake eyes and Snow job to attack the Cobra Base and I'll have Duke and Duke and Stalker (how did he get in there???) around back to link up with Scarlett and Snake eyes and Snake eyes and Duke....and they will take out Cobra Commander and Destro and Destro and Storm Shadow and Storm Shadow and the ONE CG I was able to find that had the Doc sticker taken off at Target....While Zartan and Buzzer and Storm Shadow and Cobra Commander and Cobra Commander and Cobra Commander and Destro and destro hold the front.....Thank God I got one Air Trooper single pack for Cobra Air Support. I'll have him cover Storm Shadow, Cobra Commander and OH HELL, WHAT's THE USE?!?!?!

I might as well buy Star Wars! :P

dawg, it's been this way for YEARS. C'mon, you've HAD to read the history reports on the JBL. Hasbro did things their way for awhile. But stores realized what sells are the characters people can recognize. I understand that's not fair to the fans, but Hasbro wants casual collectors to suck in. So that's how CORE is created. Frank, you gotta know about the BIG 3. They call the shots. Whether we like or not, it don't matter. Like Hasbro, these corporations are out to make money.

That is why we see Duke, SE and CC so much. It's my belief that there are different tiers of characters. Like Destro, Stormy and Baroness (who knows who else) are tier2. I'm sure heavyDuty/Roadblock, Firefly, etc are Tier3.

And if you EVER notice the SW line, the same old characters show up. Just as Marvel has Core, Batman has core, He-Man has core, etc. But uh yeah... The fact is, who KNOWS when we might get new characters or when GI Joe will move forward. Let's face it, when the movie toys come out, don't expect anything new. I expect the usual CORE with MAYBE new outfits.

I need to vent and this is the thread for it. Man, all these non stop 25th pics are roitting my soul. I loved this site before the 25ths got so popular. Yes I have some, but only bc I enjoy the hunt for new joes, even if they suck, and even then I just paint and disfigure them. And yes I do use some in a few shots, but when I do, they fit nice with the traditionals. There are just soo many shots of just 25th figures in the shot. I love this site bc I get to see pics of old troops I don't have or haven't thought of in awhile. A picture could be original soul-ly on the basis of what figures you chose to put in your shot. But it hurts my heart and my dedication to the site when I see the same 10 25th figs over and over, I like seeing the customs, even thats fun, I love to paint and hack. But seeing the same person post the same figures over and over drives me batty. I miss so much seeing awesome figures I didn't have. I didn't know about the laser vipers till this site, now I have a bunch, I didn't know about the blue undertows untill this site, now I have a bunch. You can say I just don't know my joes then, but I say I didn't take notice of that fig until I saw them in a great pic and then wanted to hunt them down. I get no excitment over seeing a 25th s.e. or a 25th firefly over and over. Infact I wish so much I could change my name just bc I don't like seeing him so much, we all saw firefly enough with the older figs, but now I'm not even sure I like him anymore. (Admins: If you listening is it possible to change) :D . I miss the good old days and Ive only been a member 8 months.


disclaimer:
This was not meant as a personal attack, a singling out, or any other kind of attack on any of my friends here only as an attack on hasbro for giving me sh*tty toys and hurting my passion which is this site. I was not trying to offend any collectors or dio makers. I have a bunch of 25ths, I still buy them. just not sure why I do, and I don't have fun with them. I love everyone here and your work regardless of compositon, its cool we even have a place to do this. That said, just a personal opinion, don't hold that against me. :D Now back to the booze!

cory

Heh, I know what you mean. I wish they had a separate section so I didn't have to see 'em at all! :rolleyes: The more I see of them the more I dislike them. To me, they are a separate toy line, nothing to do with the Joes we have known and loved for so long. :(

True, they're a separate toy line, but so is Sigma Six and no one (that I saw) ever complained when pics of those guys got posted pretty regularly. People show pics of 12" Joes too, and no one ever says they need a separate section. I don't even think anyone would complain if someone posted Sgt. Savage or G.I. Joe Extreme shots here either, because they all fall under the banner of G.I. Joe, just like the 25th.

A lot of people find the 25th figures fun to photograph because they're so poseable, thus lending themselves to certain things that normal ARAH Joes can't do. I don't see why this is such a big deal, though-- If you see a thumbnail with 25th figures in it, just don't click it!

Anyway, sorry to inject a pro-25th statement into this thread. By all means, please carry on bashing! ;)

It was only a tounge-in-cheek comment, Self Mod, I don't really expect or desire a separate section for 25th pics. ;) But your advice on not looking is sound, I generally only comment on a 25th pic if it is something special.

I was just venting, and believe it or not it made me feel better. like Self-mod said , we have had plenty of shots of sigma, 12inch etc, but all together it was a great diversity. All the pics certainly mixed it up a bit and made for great pics, my main point was simply that (at least to me) it gets old seeing the same 25th figures posed over and over, having 25 years of O-ring figs makes for alot of diverse figure selections as opposed to the common 25th you pick up at target, but lately all photos focus on the same 25th individuals. You are right Self-m, there are extremely posseble and that makes for cool looking shots(if you can get over the man-boobs some have) but its all the 25ths points of articulation that really show how cool it is when a classic 3&3/4 is posed to perfection. again I was not trying to alienate any 25th owners and lovers, I was just thinking back..reflecting...and missing. After all it is what this thread is for.

I have to admit the 25th stuff has grown on me and I have been customizing them like crazy BUT... I too miss the original guys. All of mine are in storage while my 25th stuff is here in the apt. hence my pics. If I had the room I'd focus on my older stuff. I am currently reliving my childhood by searching for the 25th stuff, it's cheaper than buying original figs on ebay and I like the hunt. Like anything though the fad that is the 25th stuff will pass and members will be returning back to the original. So Cory rest assured you'll see more original style pics.

I must admit I dig the hunt, and get plenty excited about getting a new comic pack at midnight at wal-mart, nothing against the figs, just miss seeing more than the common 25th fig everyday. Sgcaper, I hope your right, so I'll stick around... lol yea right where am I gonna go?! I love this joint :D

You gotta figure it's the NEW thing on the block right now. You never know... You might see some old stuff surface from me sooner or later. ;) (errrrr, old in as 2002-2005)