The NEW Thread; To the members of Joe Dios

[ender098]

At the risk of being accused of dragging out the controversy and drama here(God knows I've been accused of a LOT of things lately!), I'd like to get a general discussion going about how YOU, the members of Joe Dios feel about this place. The reason I post this is recently it has been said that this a more of a "Clique" than a website. I know that isn't true. But , I ask the new members, does it SEEM that way to you?

Here's MY feelings on the subject. When I first came here, there were members that had been here a while and knew each other like OutRider, HellJester, HammerFel, Luke Ellison and a few others. Then there were guys who just occasionally contributed and rarely posted in the forums. As I posted and got to know these guys, asking their advice and commenting on their work, I began to call some of them "Friend" and get to know them quite well. As far as I know, no one here has ever been denied being my friend (or theirs) or getting my opinion or help from me or any of these gentlemen.

To me a "Clique" is an eliteist population denying membership to others and discriminating against anyone who doesn't meet their standards. If that exists here, I don't see it. If someone else sees that here, please, open my eyes and show me what I'm overlooking. My worry is because some of the people have accused me of being "In the Clique" I can't see what's going on.

Is this the case? Thoughts.....??

[Urban Saboteur]

This frank is an excellent question,
I'd also like to know where this clique mentality comes from, i'd like to think that with all my contacts I can refer to them as friends.
I'd also expect that although we might not always agree on something, we all should be able to sort things out properly.

I'd talked to you, Lord Raven, I've spoken to ToneGuns and Stormer and some others on MSN, but in all honesty I make myself available to anyone that would want to talk dio creation or gi joe to me.. so I can't see where I would eliminate anyone from this discussion, if anything i consider myself and the members here to be the most open discussed community.. so I'm totally confused at the forum being branded 'clique' you'll also recall the last person to blame us of this wasn't a stranger to controversy themselves. ;)

It will be interesting to see what materialises on this thread.

[sithviper]

I’ve been a member here for just under eleven months now. Briefly I felt that there was a slight separation between me and every one else; and that was because I was new and everyone else was established members (something, I think, all “new members” to any forum experience). That feeling was quickly dispelled were I felt like I was welcomed with “open arms.” Since then, I have never felt there were any cliques.

[Sonneilon]

I wouldn't say there are cliques, per say. But some of us have MSN MSGR and we speak on there quite a bit. One could say that myself, Frank, Shane, Luis and Carlos all chat frequently. At the same time, I got Urban Sabateur, GI Jock, Stormer, Zartan015, Dodger/Renegade/Blight on there too. They represent a WHOLE different group. I talked to Pru a few times. Mr. Bieri a few other times. Jay. Phu. Can't remember who else.

People tend to clump together. It's natural.

Don't worry about cliques. If you want to dispel 'em, get a msn msgr account, give us the id to find you under and party on. And you just MIGHT hear some stories of what gone on the JD. ;)

[lehsreh]

[COLOR=Red]if there is, im not part of it :( always on the outside looking in.

seriously, no there isnt. i may have been here long enough to be considered a vet, but im not. i dont post a lot of great pics, and although i honestly consider most on here friends, i havent chatted on msn, yahoo or whatever at any length with anyone. just a few private emails here and there. most of us know that those like shane and frank are close and seem to talk often like many others. then there are those who disagree, urban saboteur stated recently that he and i have disagreed at times. that is true and we have also agreed.

what im trying to say is, i dont talk at length with anyone on here, i have agreed and disagreed with members. but when all is said and done, if there was anything i can do, any advice or opinion or whatever, i would do it. be it for frank who has given me lots of goddies to complete many figures, urban saboteur whos opinion (even if we disagree) on anything i read because he seems to have reason for each and every thought, and yes, general scarlett too. many have done the same for me and do not even know me. if there truly was a clique would i do that? would frank have given so much stuff to so many people. ask matt, agent viper, if anyone has a say in this it would be him. he came on under different names, he got banned a few times, but when he came back, admitted who he was, everyone accepted him.
and if there is a clique, wouldnt there be a clique with those who like the 25th and those who didnt?[/COLOR]

[Urban Saboteur]

Lehsreh makes a valid point about agent viper, if we were a ''clique'' then we wouldn't of accepted Matt for all his wrongdoings, he wouldnt of stood a chance.
This is probably the best example given, because he like most had more than enough warnings bout his behaviour. We still accept him now.

It's not just about who tried and who did wrong, in the end it's all about accepting we all have faults, mine for my sometimes less than tactile approach.. I'm too abrasive or not subtle enough.. but thats just me.. my reasons are always geniune.

I still stand by my earlier comments, I don't see there being a clique here at all, and more importantly both RDS13601 and General Scarlett haven't been banned or removed.. so they are still free to post here!

That's evidence enough that a clique doesnt exist..

[Outrider]

I've been here a long time now, and to my knowledge, there has never been any cliques or anything of the kind. Like G said, people get to know each other and become friends, and they will naturally seek each other out, but not to the exclusion of anyone else. I've been lucky enough to have made a lot of good friends on this site, but I'm more than happy to help anyone who asks me, whether I've known them for years or if they have just joined the site. And despite some of the crap that goes on occasionally, this is still a great place to hang out.

[Da Talent]

If we are a clique, then all it takes is signing up on here to become a member. I have made a lot of good friends here, and I felt welcomed from day one: The day I took my first awful pic and posted it on here, I instantly felt like apart of the "group". Hell as far as the Matt/Agent Viper thing goes, I sent him a bunch of crap too. I even sent him my old digital camera so he could take better pics. On the same note I am so thankful for all the cool stuff and help from people on here as well. I think thats one of the things that makes this place so unique, the ability and willingness of everyone to help everyone else out. That doesn't sound elitist or like a clique to me, it sounds like a damn good place to congregate. :D

[Sonneilon]

Wait a second... Is THAT why Matt's pics have gotten better? He has a real camera???

SEriously tho... Yeah, we'll crap on poor shots but someone is ALWAYS willing to try and help to make them better. And imo, the 90% of the Bad Picture Brigade listen and learn. I can think of a FEW people who never improved and they disappeared.

But you know what, one of the guys who had to practice for almost a month was ToneGuns. He hacked on him so much cuz he was THE master of shooting the background better than the figure! It wasn't because we didn't like him. We wanted to see him improve.

Certainly, the How-To section had done wonders too.

[silentdusty]

This site is great. I don't find it cliquish at all. I have received and still receive constructive critisism on my pics, which only helps me improve, I have bought and recieved items from members of the site. I have had help offered when modifying my figures. The people on this site are a really nice bunch of people, and, someday, if I get over my vile distaste for MSN Messenger, I may actually go on and add a bunch of the guys so I can chat for real with some of them.

[ToneGunsRevisited]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]But you know what, one of the guys who had to practice for almost a month was ToneGuns. He hacked on him so much cuz he was THE master of shooting the background better than the figure! It wasn't because we didn't like him. We wanted to see him improve.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the compliments, but it was true. My backgrounds always showed out nicely. LOL!

[Da Talent]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]Wait a second... Is THAT why Matt's pics have gotten better? He has a real camera???
[/QUOTE]

lol, yep. Rachel got a HD cybershot for xmas so I mailed him my old cybershot. I was sick of looking at all the cell phone camera pics. lol jk Matt :)

[Scarrviper]

After a few weeks, I definitely felt like one of the team. I like this place because here old school style stuff is still around. I have noticed on other boards that it's "25th this" and "25th that". It is very refreshing here. As for cliques, I don't know of any.

[Bayer]

Uh, dudes...like we should so give this Ender098 a swirly in the boys locker room after next period....

What is this? High school? Come on!

There are no cliques here. There are some members who communicate with each other a great deal more than others and there are some members who have no tact in their posts, but this is a norm as far as hobby sites go.

And don't you guys pick on my pictures anymore or I'll report you to the principal! :D

[Dersham]

I think Bayer said it best in that some of us communicate with each other a far greater deal than others, and that can cause some to feel as though they're left out of the loop. I've been watching this site for a while now and perhaps a way to avoid these kinds of situations is for everyone to have MSN msngr so that everyone can chat together. Yeah it's a crazy notion, I know. Though it sounds like it pays to be friendly, getting a free camera, that would be awesome :D . Or even free figs for that matter, I wouldn't say no to that. Nonetheless like any relationship you get what you give.

I think some people feel they deserve some kind of special treatment, for whatever reason, and get frustrated when it appears that someone is getting special treatment over them. Whether there is a clique or not, it doesn't matter. If we want to get attention, we just need to be more communal. Perhaps communal isn't the right word, as we just need to be aware of what we say and to who. Did we forget this was a site about action figures?

[Sonneilon]

I suppose you guys could look at it this way. IF only a few of us were responding to THIS thread and RDS's thread, then it'd look pretty darn clique-ish. Part of being a clique is being inducted into the group and following their rules. The only rules people gotta follow are the house rules which must makes ALL OF us our own clique. And believe me, if we ALL went to the JoeCon, we'd go in mass force as our posse to show the rest of the Joe fandom what's up, right?

[ToneGunsRevisited]

Looks like myself and Agent Viper are suffering bullying!!! Should we start shooting at everyone? ;)

We need to fight with what we have. When G. 1st stated my complete lack of focus in my first pictures back in 2005. My first thought was: What is focus? After finding out how to use a macro, the pictures got a little better. Of course some can't stand some critisism, but it is important. And we didn't say that everyone will get good coments, we are here to say what we think about other pictures, of course trying to use polite language.

I need to apologize with someone who I don't remember who, that I used the word "awful" when I was trying to use "awesome". Problems with my terrible English. :o

[Hammerfel]

If there's a clique here, I'm not in it. :)

Or maybe JoeDios.com is the clique... I keep removing Russian spammers from our clique, so we must be elitist! :)

[Da Talent]

Russians..jeez....

[Rambo]

I've been registered for a little time and I can say, there is no clique here.

I've been welcomed for EVERYBODY, even for AgentViper and his trade intentions.

I dont recommend you the chat, cuz Graham kills (plays) his guitar while chating. :)

As Hammerfel have said, if there is a clique, all JOEDIOS.com IS the clique!

Yo Joedios.com!!!!

Everybody is welcome.

[Sonneilon]

Hey man, if you are heavy metal, I'll play for ya!!!

[ThinkTank]

I would like to say that I am so glad I found this website, because otherwise, I could not justify spending so much time and money on toys. I first started buying army toys (as an adult) when I accidentally came across the PTE stuff at Big Lots. A Watchtower has since turned into an entire room dedicated to this stuff..and dont even mention my Star Wars stuff, which I have practically ignored since 25A came out. I wanted to start my own site just like this, but since I have no idea how to do web stuff, it was dead in the water. I have a nice hobby now that I can spend hours relaxing with and come up with some cool stuff to boot. When I first started, it did seem like it was cliquish with the first names in posts and all, but that happens anytime people have known each other for a long time. I have never felt unwelcome or anything like that. I have to stick around or my wife will make me stop buying toys.

[Bayer]

[QUOTE=Hammerfel]If there's a clique here, I'm not in it. :)

Or maybe JoeDios.com is the clique... I keep removing Russian spammers from our clique, so we must be elitist! :)[/QUOTE]

AWWWW....You can be part of my clique. I am into GI Joe..... :D

[Urban Saboteur]

[QUOTE=Hammerfel]If there's a clique here, I'm not in it. :)

Or maybe JoeDios.com is the clique... I keep removing Russian spammers from our clique, so we must be elitist! :)[/QUOTE]

That's such a blatant lie.. :o C'mon hammerfel it's time to own up to being in that secret induction last year.. :p j/k

I can't believe how many have responded to this and said there isn't a clique..
at least this site has the right growth pattern and answers when it's asked of them. :cool:

[bartus]

I've been here for about a year, and I never thought there was a clique here. Everybody has been very friendly.

And as ThinkTank said, this site is a great justification to keep collecting :)

Bartus.

[ender098]

[QUOTE=Urban Saboteur]
I can't believe how many have responded to this and said there isn't a clique..
[/QUOTE]


This is the response I expected to get. I figured the one who threw out the accusations about there being a "Clique" was someone who felt because they didn't get preferential or special treatment that it was a conspiracy against them. Not the first time that has happened on her, and probably won't be the last. Someone even mentioned to me the other day that they thought it was the same person, just a new account. Wouldn't be surprised.

As for me, I'd rather test the waters and be sure. I LOVE this site. I love the people I interact with here. There are some great minds and imaginations at work here. Like others, when I first came here, I saw that a lot of veterans knew each other and spoke as friends, but they never EXCLUDED anyone from being in that circle, and now, as a veteran of this site, I hope no one here thinks I exclude anyone here from getting involved or sharing their thoughts and feelings. That's what this site is about! A place to share information and express our artistic side.

[General Jones]

I guess I will respond now. I kept silent through the whole rds issue because I felt he was wrong to try to call members out and blow the situation between Rich and Pru WAY out of proportion.

For me I felt the same way as some other members when they started out. "How am I going to produce the same high quality work?" So it took me a while to become comfortable with replying to threads and posting pictures and I admit that I have a long way to go. But I have received nothing but encouragement from the "older" member. I even miss the old days of the chat room rich started last year.

I think that the "clique" issue started when Blowtorch blew a propane tank after that weird contest. I think that situation made us all cautious with the word "clique" and we have been afraid of being accused of having different cliques ever since. I agree with Fel. This whole site of Joe collectors is one big clique, and I am just fine with that. If people want to get their feelings hurt over action figures, then that is there problem.
Peace
GJ

[ender098]

[QUOTE=General Jones]
This whole site of Joe collectors is one big clique, and I am just fine with that. If people want to get their feelings hurt over action figures, then that is there problem.
[/QUOTE]




LOL!!! Well Put! ;)

[Sonneilon]

[QUOTE=General Jones]"How am I going to produce the same high quality work?"[/QUOTE]

Dawg, I've been asking myself that question for the last year or so. I haven't posted much cuz I don't feel it's up to par. Which is probably why I do dios so I don't have to concentrate so hard on just 1 shot!

[lehsreh]

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]Dawg, I've been asking myself that question for the last year or so. I haven't posted much cuz I don't feel it's up to par. Which is probably why I do dios so I don't have to concentrate so hard on just 1 shot![/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Red]my thoughts exactly.[/COLOR]

[Bayer]

I've been blowing smoke and joking a bit and not to digress from the original point of this thread, but the most important point about this site (at least to me) is to give us a relatively comfortable place to post the images we've taken and to exhibit them for comments (good or bad). I feel that the feedback has never been a personal attack (or come on :D ) from any member. Only an honest way to get some other perspectives and insights so I can improve my work.

There are a lot of people who are insecure or unsure about the intent of what they read and become defensive very quickly. All I can say is relax and take any feedback as a friendly and honest comment about what another set of eyes and experience is seeing. Use that feedback (good or bad) and strive to do the best work you can.

After all, what is the use of spending all the time and effort in creating that wonderful custom, or dio and then take pictures that are out of focus, washed-out, or just not showing the best details?

[rds13601]

If you thought I blew it out of proportion, tough. I don't like women being disrespected period. This isn't general scarlett ender. This is a 4o year old man. My personal feeling is people are just trying to make in this world. When someone yells at a slow driver while going to work it might be the slow driver isn't intentionally pissing you off but trying to juggle his hectic lifestyle in his head with no thought of what he's doing ahead of you. Give people the benefit of the doubt. Be understanding!! When someone tells me their upset at what she saw and was crying. Was that cool? I am a hothead. No doubt about that. Scarlett said some nice things to me about my mom's terminal situation. I cherish those sentiments!!! When someone is nice to me and feels hurt; well I consider that wrong. That's how I roll. As for the clique issue,prove it; show me it isn't by welcoming Scarlett's new pictures and not giving her grief about what went down. She didn't tell me to do anything. I took it upon myself; like I would for my family or my friends. That comes from facing a violent history and bad health. My perspective on life is different cuz life has shaped me that way. Drop the bad sentiments toward her and welcome her back as a contributor. Hate me; but don't hate her. Ban me if you like. Just don't take it out on her. That'll show me the character of you guys!!!

[lehsreh]

[QUOTE=rds13601]As for the clique issue,prove it; show me it isn't by welcoming Scarlett's new pictures and not giving her grief about what went down. [/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Red]
where do you even come from saying that? not once have we ever said anything about her pics, not once. i saw times when she would do something i was totally against, but the same day she would post a pic and i would give it 5 stars and give it props, as did everyone... EVERYONE! do you even read what others say in reply? we all spoke about how we wanted her to stay and post pics, just not mod(well not everyone said the mod thing). i actually want her and flint to do a dio story. dont put words in others mouths. no one as far as i know ever said anything but good stuff about her picture taking.

one other thing, i dont think i need to prove my character to anyone. im sure others feel the same. [/COLOR]

[vader9900]

I am just glad to see GS still posting pictures. She does some fine work, and I for one would miss her contributions.

[ender098]

Rds,
I agree with you, there is no need to disrespect ANYONE, be they a woman, Man, Child, alien from outer space whatever. My issue is that I don't remember anyone disrespecting her here. Not on the boards and not on posts on her pics. Rich said he and GS had words offline, but they worked it out. How does she feel disrespected?

I think she's great personally. I've never had an issue with her personally. I love her to death. (Laugh, but it's true!) She is great. She's Awesome. She really cares about people. But despite how I feel, that doesn't mean she was a great moderator. I think she overstepped her bounds more than once and it was handled. End of story. I'm not rubbing it in, just stating the facts. She tried really hard, she gave a lot of herself and was WAY too understanding of some people on here. And we are all really grateful for 90% of what she did. Really.

Has anyone here given her grief about what went down? I certainly haven't. Rich and I both have tried to IM her on MSN and she ignores us. No one has bad sentiments towards her or you. You're as welcome here as any member, as is she. As far I know the only bad sentiments here are the ones SHE IMAGINES everyone has against her. The reason I say that is I have seen no one here show any ill-will against her and in the past when someone disagreed with her, she WAS known to say "You all think I'm the Queen B*TCH around here."

No one EVER thought that. And if you tried to tell her different, she never believed anyone. A lot of her hurting is caused by imagined persecution. I'm not saying this to be snide , I'm stating this so hopefully you and she will realize no one here hates either of you or thinks anything ill of either of you. The ONLY issues I know here was the religion thread that got WAY outta hand and EVERYONE wants to forgive and forget about, and the one issue Rich told us about that happened offline. No worries, that is over and done with, let's move on!

And I never thought you were General Scarlett, but your "Clique" references were nearly the same as Allen "BlowTorch" Biere (sp?) made when he felt that because everyone wasn't paying him enough attention, and he has been known to come back under different names and keep controvery going.

[Urban Saboteur]

[QUOTE=rds13601]If you thought I blew it out of proportion, tough. I don't like women being disrespected period. This isn't general scarlett ender. This is a 4o year old man. My personal feeling is people are just trying to make in this world. When someone yells at a slow driver while going to work it might be the slow driver isn't intentionally pissing you off but trying to juggle his hectic lifestyle in his head with no thought of what he's doing ahead of you. Give people the benefit of the doubt. Be understanding!! When someone tells me their upset at what she saw and was crying. Was that cool? I am a hothead. No doubt about that. Scarlett said some nice things to me about my mom's terminal situation. I cherish those sentiments!!! When someone is nice to me and feels hurt; well I consider that wrong. That's how I roll. As for the clique issue,prove it; show me it isn't by welcoming Scarlett's new pictures and not giving her grief about what went down. She didn't tell me to do anything. I took it upon myself; like I would for my family or my friends. That comes from facing a violent history and bad health. My perspective on life is different cuz life has shaped me that way. Drop the bad sentiments toward her and welcome her back as a contributor. Hate me; but don't hate her. Ban me if you like. Just don't take it out on her. That'll show me the character of you guys!!![/QUOTE]

What of my invite to speak with you off joe dios? On msn or through email I havent had a response from you?
I can't sit here and scruitinize you for protectiong G.S not in such a brash manner, and especially when I've been guilty of the same action in the past.

As far as character goes, nobody here is out to proove anything, Lehsreh said everything that has to be said on the matter, apart from the fact that we all like to do our very best with our work.

As for yourself and G.S welcoming you back, it's both your own decisions to leave, Hammerfel didn't ban you and we didnt say you wasn't welcome, the decisions to leave were but your own..
I've commented on General Scarlett's work, collaborations usually between hereself and Flint.. and i find most of her work fantastic.

I really am bemused by your apparent lack of knowledge on the whole situation, only the other day I was on MSN, telling G.S that she should return to Joe Dios, so she loses her mod status.. what really does that mean? It doesn't mean she can't take photos and contribute to the site, she's still a valued member, as are you and all of the lurkers that read the forums.

Any feedback given on photos is done so that it helps the original contributor, like i said from the outset, people need to know a few things..
1. We're all friends.
2. We're going to argue and disagree, friends have differing opinions.
3. We're eventually going to make up and carry on doing great work.

Again.. I will say it publicly.. RDS13601 & General Scarlett are welcome here at Joe Dios!! I was really pleased to see that Pru picked up on the Weekend Warriors Unlikely Heroes Project, something that she has started with a passion and hopefully we can all contribute to bring a great story line with great pictures.

My kindest Regards
Rich.

[Swindle]

So, what happened? I've been away.

GS was a bad mod and got removed? That it in a nutshell?

Hmm... I pop in and out from time to time. I post sometimes, other times I lose interest. I see tons of pics keep on being posted and that's what its about at the end of the day, so it all looks good to me. The site is doing what it shouuld do.

[Sonneilon]

Man, this is getting old.

[G.I.*Jock]

This is old. Very old.

And in the past.

I've lurked a lot recently but I feel I gotta come forward and try and end the needless unrest some seem to be feeling.

Those who continue to drag it back into the limelight are clearly in the wrong. All this is over and done with. So whats the need to go over past events again and again and again and...? It puts me in mind of another certain former member on this site. A member we are all well rid of, for the sake of this site and not being played off eachother.

So how about it? Let it go now. Theres nothing more to be gained from this. No matter how any person feels about recent events, the fact is the events have happened. Action has been taken. The end. Or at least it should be...

Dave

[Sonneilon]

Y'know what. I'm sick of this thread. It ain't going anywhere. All it's doing is trying to air dirty laundry and for the lurkers and really new folks, all they'll see is how dysfunctional the site COULD be.

IF you want to continue on with this, PM each other or IM each other. Or Email. However you want.

I'm locking this down.