Get a load of this...

[Sonneilon]

Since getting back into the GI Joe game in 2002, I've read a lot of things. Heard a lot of things. Learned a lot of things. I even came to terms w/ some of my beefs about GI Joe in general. Since coming here, it sometimes feels like I'm starting over. Because here, I have to figure out my Joeverse because it's reflected in my dios.

Several people don't like Duke. I never liked the guy until, ahem, Sigma6 where he was a wooden leader. That seemed more like Duke than anything Sunbow did, imo. At the same time, I didn't like Flint either!

I've come to a conclusion about why I didn't like Duke or Flint. They were authority figures. I guess I was seeing on-screen, characters I wouldn't want to be around or would want to follow. When I started skateboarding in 1986, part of the deal w/ skating is to be anti-authoritarian. Seeing Duke as the poster boy, it was like, automatic hate!

But it's more than that. Duke was the guy where the universe revolved around him. I remember in grade school, it felt the same way. The trendys were the guys who made the rules in school, y'know? In my case, they were blonde. And now, just watching Karate Kid, the main 'villian' is ultra blonde and the universe revolved around him! I know, totally weird. But there were kids that looked just like Johnny and acted like him. In grade school. In middle school. In high school. It's no wonder I had a beef against a cartoon character! lol

Just fyi.

[lehsreh]

[COLOR=Red] you know i was the same way. i started with the cartoons and hadnt read the comics until a few years back. i hated duke and flint for the same reason you did, they were the boss and they gave the orders and got the spotlight. my cousin would always be these two, he loved being in control. when we played joes, my cousins and i were the bad guys. now however, i like duke and flint. yes in the sigma six cartoon i like duke a lot, snake eyes too, and i know ive said bad things about him. the one up the chain joe i still hate is falcon. some reason or another he has just never been someone i like.
never really thought about the blonde thing, i do have dark brown hair myself, and ive always liked my dark brown hair girls, throw in a firey hot redhead or two now and then, lol. for me (no offense to anyone) blondes have the preppy or suffer dumb look, who dont seem to be the tough fighters or mysterious looking people or characters that i like. i see blond and i think dumb jessica simpson, or hot slutty ex britney spears or preppy paris hilton. i like the dark hair nerdy, innocent and mysterious girls. i see these same qualities in characters. im not sterotyping here, i know this isnt how to judge anyone, as i said, this is just how i think of my joe characters, most blondes are really dark hair people anyway. hell i went through the blonde dye faze. dont be hateing for stating my opinion [/COLOR]

[Sonneilon]

When Falcon came along, I thought he was the bomb. Great figure, mold, sculpt and he had a shotgun! As for the treatment of him in the movie, well... Let's just say that it didn't do him any favors!

[Bayer]

I had a similar issue with Duke. Even today Duke is my least favorite character. He seems to be harken back to that whole supreme Aryan ideal (Blonde/Blue eyed). I liked Flint at first, because he didn't seem so much like Duke, but then he started to become more establishment. Beachhead always reminded me of a deranged gym teacher - the one who would shoot you if you didn't "give 100%".

Hawk was the upper manager who seemed a little out of the loop - but still had no problem with giving orders.

Falcon never had the exposure so I never developed an opinion about him.

[Jay]

Well, I didn't like Duke in the cartoons, in fact I'm not a big fan of the cartoon as a whole, and his comic book debut left me cold, but I have to say I enjoyed him in later issues when he became less of a jerk, and his role in the battle of Benzheen made him earn great respect from me.

As for the whole Aryan deal, well... the 2000 Duke has brown eyes. Even with my repainting his hair blond, he still won't look all that Aryan in my Joeverse. No worries there for me.

[Lava Boss]

I never disliked Duke. He was, after all, still just one member of a very large and diverse force, and Hawk was a blonde aryan, too.


I held a grudge against Bazooka because he looked too much like the jerk gym teacher/coaches from grade school. Always had that hairstyle and the mustache. Like they were clones. The football jersey didn't help, since in the south either guys played football in middle and high school or they didn't matter. And it's probably still that way.


Ahhh, nothing like public school to warp people forever!

[Swindle]

I actually like Duke a lot more than Flint or General Hawk.

Duke actually had a backstory of protecting a little kid getting picked on in the MASS Device, and how those kind of moments tested his sense of honor and justice, how that fit in with his idea of America. Cheesy, sure, but Duke always fell into an ideal-type character, sort of like Captain America.

Flint was moody and could easily get jealous/possessive of Lady Jaye, granted, he did his fair share of leading, but he lacked the true heroism that Duke contained.

The sense I've always gotten from General Hawk was far removed from the team, up to his neck in paper work, off in Washington at a meeting, or trying to save his relationship with Scott. The reason for that crazy jet pack in the 90s? Middle-aged crisis.

I loved Falcon in the movie. (Falcon actually sort of reminds me of Ferris Bueller).

[General Scarlett]

I've always been a Duke fan. Being a 'Superman' nutcase, I always look for a real 'good guy'. For me, that is what Duke represents. It's hard to explain, but it's a 'feeling' that I get seeing someone that, while may seem 'cheesy', is just a downright honest, pure, strong MAN.


Maybe it's a girl thing with me, but Duke is the guy that girls want to bring home to their parents........ :)

[Sonneilon]

And since many of us look NOTHING like him, we didn't care for the guy! What ever happened to loving a brother w/ a bus pass??? lol.

[General Scarlett]

Hahahahaha-you don't get it.....it's not about the 'looks', it's about what's underneath...........

But then again, I'm not like the other girls. I like 'real' men. And that's what Duke is.....doesn't matter what he looks like, his heart & soul are 'Super'.......


And if he's got a bus pass?? That's cool, I like sitting close on the bus....... ;)

[lehsreh]

[COLOR=Red]HA! i never thought to think if i resent him for haveing an adonis persona. and here i'm a psychology major. i dont think that mademe hate duke, i still say its the rebellion against an authoritarian personification that made me hate him so much. never, never liked being told what to do. if im asked, im jump right to it and do my best to make you proud, but if im told, well, youll have to send someone else to finish.
and jay, i cant believe you dont like the cartoons! thats like loving peebles cereal but hating anything to do with milk.[/COLOR]

[Stormer]

Sonneilon; you didn't like Duke & co because of your anti-authoritarian nature, and then you didn't like Falcon for his portrayal in the movie? Geez, what's it take to make you happy...? ;)

[Sonneilon]

lol. I turned a blind eye to Falcon in the movie. :D

[yorktownjoe]

Of course, in the movie, if Duke hadn't jumped in front of Serpentor's snake spear, Falcon's treatment in the movie would have ended in a flag-draped coffin.

I segmented the movie out of my official Joe continuity. I liked Duke and Snake-Eyes as characters, but when comic and cartoon conflicted, I would turn to comic as the authority, and cartoon as creative license (ex. Scarlett couldn't have a witty conversation w/ SE in a cartoon, although there were glimpses of this. Ergo, Duke gets the girl). However, what happened in my own Joeverse trumped everything else. And toy characters who died in a battle were not relegated to a pile. They were picked up the next day and the battle continued.

I never read any of the DD stuff, just Marvel, so my opinions on characters are not influenced by that.

I liked v.1 Duke, even with the goofy grin on his face. In 1983, that was quite a headsculpt, and I liked the card art as well. The grin isn't as bothersome when you remember the card art angry eyebrows... Very reminiscent of someone who has planted a large amount of C-4 and is waiting to hear the bang.

That being said, it is very interesting to tie back psychology into collecting. Perhaps the feelings of people toward characters is shaped by their perception of others in the world around them. We can't segment parts of our own personality, as easily as we mentally compartmentalize our Joe-verse.

I remember a wise person once told me not to hate people in authority who display bothersome qualities, but rather to strive each day not to become like them in the specific traits that bother me.

Perhaps another psychological study would be to try and track a common thread in our diverse pool of collectors. What drives us to collect? Did something in our reality steer us towards escapism? Did Joe provide us a safe haven to work out issues our minds were dealing with in the world? Does nostalgia drive us back, or have we never left?

Ahh, this is getting too deep. I think I need to go create a custom figure.... ;)