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Sonneilon

05-25-2007, 10:33 PM

Duke is part of Hasbro's CORE. You guys really need to understand that when the corporations became part of the toy scene (ie; Walmart, Target and TRU), they wanted a link between different series of toys. The creation of the CORE is a common knowledge among toy enthusiasts. Let's face it, Star Wars can't sell a 'wave' if there isn't A RECOGNIZABLE NAME. We have Anakin, Yoda, Vader, and ObiWan in every g'damn wave, it seems like.

So somewhere in the GI Joe world, it was decided that such chars like Duke, CC, Destro, Baroness, Scarlet and Snake Eyes were top dogs. HOW they got there, I do not know. But there are a late comers to the GI Joe toy game and all I can think is that Hasbro people went out and asked people who they best recognized. And don't think for a second Hasbro was thinking, "we'll ask about the comic side of things" cuz the cartoon was viewed by far more KIDS. Ask anybody on the street if they remember GI Joe and Duke will come before Hawk and Flagg.

Let me bring this up. Justin and Fred both see this. Most AMERICANS do too. I don't know what GI Joe means to y'all overseas, but the people here have different views. And sometimes, it makes the non-US fans feel like outsiders. There are people who dig the ARAH old skulpts and stand by them no matter what. There are those like me, Justin and Fred who want to see GI Joe progress and not got stuck like it was 1982 or 1986. Hasbro is a business and people gotta understand that.

The 2002+ relaunch was a danged good attempt to try to change GI Joe up and making things hip and cool. A lot of people HATE the nu skulpts. Uhmmmm yeah, as if the old skulpts were working??? Hello, the comic fell and the toy did too. The crapola cartoon by DiC didn't help any but by then, there was a lot of weird things going on. The ARAH remains in my memory and I have no need to relive it. I want to relive old stuff, I can buy videos of Metallica and Maiden. GI Joe needed to progress and while it was very hit n miss, uh, well... uh...

Ok, so now we are hitting the 25th Anniversary of GI Joe. WHy exactly would they experiment w/ something TOTALLY new? It's common consensus that Hasbro wanted to redux the original designs into a new age skulpt. From where I sit, that redux of Snake Eyes (from 1982) is absolutely awesome. It's like, "this is what Hasbro can do NOW w/ the original designs."

Everyone HAS to understand that GI Joe's sales philosophy has changed dramatically over the last few years. I'm not sure why that is or why the heads of GI Joe Hasbro keeps changing. But it was decided at the end of Valor vs Venom that sales were NOT high enough. The stockholders or whoever at Hasbro wanted an overnite success. Sigma6, while planned, got a whole lot of changes and love. For the record, S6 was NOT the overnite success they wanted. I mean, Trader Joes, when they open a store, they expect $150k+ sales that first day. (For the record, some of the Cali stores do $500K+ during X-mas season. THAT is for a store whose hours are 0900-2100; it is NOT 24hr.) If the store doesn't do hot success that 1st day, it's considered a failure. I bring THIS up cuz I see Hasbro pulling the same crap.

The 1st quarter S6 comes out, if it don't do $2 million, then it sucks. Or whatever. It's crap like that that makes me question Hasbro. Remember the TCG? Remember how fast it got pulled???

Back to the 25th Anniversary. It's believed that the old uniforms will get past collectors to look twice. It's believed that the old uniforms will cater to those really hardcore fans who wanted to see the stuff updated. It's believed that GI Joe needed a shot in the arm and S6 was not the correct answer. (I know it sounds like a dis, but it DID bring in a new generation; something that the 2002+ relaunch couldn't do very well.)

How I feel about it is irrelevant. I just know that the most recognizable characters are being utilized and to an extent, that sucks. I don't know how much the BIG 3 are in on this. But I can believe that everything is connected. Walmart needs Joes to sell and their historians know that the ARAH designs worked best. At the same time, GI Joe must go forward so new articulation (albeit, untested) has to be tried out.

Go ahead and try to argue it out. Just blame corporations in the end, ok? :P

Urban Saboteur

05-26-2007, 07:10 AM

I'm going to go ahead and actually state I like duke.. no honestly I do. He was one of the key characters I waited to get when completing series 2. He also remains to be the only figure I have MISB with flag sticker.
Ever since I saw the figure online I thought.. "I want a duke figure complete with US Flag sticker" it was a real great sence of achievement when I actually won him.

As for Duke and the actual subject here.. what would happen if Duke died.. well I guess Falcon or Stalker would be upped. My first guess would be Stalker since we're talking 80s here Stalker actually gets upped to Sergeant at some point anyway right?

So I guess that sorts itself out quite nicely.. now onto the other part of the thread:

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]you see i dont like duke. and i know some of you also dont like him. so do any of you think this may effect the toy line in any way, if thay did kill off that ##@$%%$# of duke.?[/FONT]

You mentioned you don't like duke.. the character, the figure or both.. this is incredibly vague .. lets say it is both then.. what don't you like about him? The fact the bigshots decided to not kill him off? It's a bit harsh on the character .. because after all its not like he has a say in the matter.. and if he did.. why would he himself admit to wanting to be killed? You mention you don't like him without even giving any reasons to back up why?

I think the first series duke figure and the second release (on card) are great representations of who we see in the comic at the early stages. The gold badges on the chest pocket are a great touch to the figure and the accessories are decent. The character himself is also well thought out.. and is a good addition to the GIJOE team... thats my honest opinion of why I like duke.

lehsreh

05-26-2007, 07:52 AM

[COLOR=Red]wow, im not gonna jump in with the biz part of G.I. Joe, im just gonna go about it as a fan base. i wish to god they had killed duke. it made me like optimus more, so maybe i could have not hated duke so much. the man is done to death almost as much as snake eyes and he doesnt even do anything. as for who would have taken his place, i do see falcon. i see flint, he has been around as long as duke, in the cartoons, which although most go by the comic was probably bigger in hasbors eyes. so flint would have taken his place. i dont see anyone, falcon came on way to late, wasnt in the toons, wasnt as big in the comics or toys, and flint was leader in action force only behind hawk.[/COLOR]

ToneGunsRevisited

05-26-2007, 08:17 AM

To me, Duke had no need to show up as the TOP. Stalker could filled his place.

General Jones

05-26-2007, 08:36 AM

I think that it would be Flint honestly. In the first episode of Arise, Serpentor, Arise Flint rattled off the chain of command and it was Hawk, Duke, Flint, and Beachhead. However I suppose anyone could be recommended. Funny you should start this thread bravo, I was thinking the same thing but more of what its affect would be on the entire Joeverse, they couldn't just bring Duke back to life like OP.

Self-Modifier

05-26-2007, 11:27 AM

If Duke died, Cobra would've conquered the world.

I don't know how, but just trust me. The world needs Duke.

(Also, I agree with everything Sonneilon said in his lengthy post.)

Sonneilon

05-26-2007, 12:19 PM

In my verse, Falcon would have gotten moved to Top Kick. It's a curious idea to knock off Duke. I'd probably do it but I don't know who would take over. I mean, if I HAD a Falcon figure, I could do it easier and just have Duke in flashbacks if needed. Then again, it's not like Duke has really shown up much in my dios of the last few years. :lol:

bravo

05-26-2007, 02:27 PM

Urban Saboteur, see duke should have been killed off. i dont like the joe. theres nothing to him.and im happy that he lost Scarlett, to snackface. what ever side your on cartoon or comic. the top of the matter is he should have die. i rather have flint or falcon do the job.hasbro should see what there doing.you stay on the same joe.time after time. keep revamping him, and the line will be boring,and fans will have it out,seeing the same thing. he needs to go.

ender098

05-26-2007, 04:24 PM

It may be one of the Sky Patrol.

Airwave, Dropzone, Skydive are all E-8's (Master Sergeants or First Sergeants).

And Altitude should be Duke's Boss anyway! He's the Top E-9 in the Army according to his file Card ( Sergeant Major of the Army).

Would we go by billet or rank?

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]In my verse, Falcon would have gotten moved to Top Kick. [/QUOTE]

That might work, but Falcon is a Commisioned officer. First Sergeant is an Enlisted Position/billet!

[QUOTE=General Jones]I think that it would be Flint honestly. [/QUOTE]

And Flint is a Warrant officer. To be put in a 1stSgt position would be a demotion!

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]
Duke is part of Hasbro's CORE. You guys really need to understand that when the corporations became part of the toy scene (ie; Walmart, Target and TRU), they wanted a link between different series of toys. The creation of the CORE is a common knowledge among toy enthusiasts. Let's face it, Star Wars can't sell a 'wave' if there isn't A RECOGNIZABLE NAME. We have Anakin, Yoda, Vader, and ObiWan in every g'damn wave, it seems like.

So somewhere in the GI Joe world, it was decided that such chars like Duke, CC, Destro, Baroness, Scarlet and Snake Eyes were top dogs. HOW they got there, I do not know. But there are a late comers to the GI Joe toy game and all I can think is that Hasbro people went out and asked people who they best recognized.

Let me bring this up. Justin and Fred both see this. Most AMERICANS do too. I don't know what GI Joe means to y'all overseas, but the people here have different views. And sometimes, it makes the non-US fans feel like outsiders.
[/QUOTE]

That's what I hate the most about using Duke. HE alienates non-white blue eyed aryan america. He looks like a poster boy for Aryan supremacy! The "Perfect" blond haired, blue -eyed master aryan! The GI Joe team is a fairly decent cross setion of America, but by using Duke in EVERY POSTER, EVERY VIDEO COVER, EVERY MAGAZINE Ad, you don't showcase the cultural diversity of GI Joe. And the truth of the Matter is, a First Sergeant would NEVER be in combat with his troops unless it was a MAJOR battle!

[QUOTE=Sonneilon]
The stockholders or whoever at Hasbro wanted an overnite success. Sigma6, while planned, got a whole lot of changes and love. For the record, S6 was NOT the overnite success they wanted. I mean, Trader Joes, when they open a store, they expect $150k+ sales that first day. (For the record, some of the Cali stores do $500K+ during X-mas season. THAT is for a store whose hours are 0900-2100; it is NOT 24hr.) If the store doesn't do hot success that 1st day, it's considered a failure. I bring THIS up cuz I see Hasbro pulling the same crap.

The 1st quarter S6 comes out, if it don't do $2 million, then it sucks. Or whatever. It's crap like that that makes me question Hasbro. Remember the TCG? Remember how fast it got pulled???

Back to the 25th Anniversary. It's believed that the old uniforms will get past collectors to look twice. It's believed that the old uniforms will cater to those really hardcore fans who wanted to see the stuff updated. It's believed that GI Joe needed a shot in the arm and S6 was not the correct answer. (I know it sounds like a dis, but it DID bring in a new generation; something that the 2002+ relaunch couldn't do very well.)

[/QUOTE]

Exactly! If it aint as overnight sucess as StarBucks, throw it away! No one in business today believes in making sales that will last for generations! If they can't drain the coffers overnight, it's a flop! That's why companies like Enron and WorldComm came about! How about earning money over TIME???

And as for Sigma six, yeah it brought new blood to the line, but it fractured the line Again!
They fracture it when they went from 12" to 3 3/4", then again when they made a few Extreme Fans and again when they made Sigma six and Sigma Six 2.5. There are too many lines and sizes to like. No matter what the next thing is, they lose fans of the other lines! The 2002 line didin't bring in the fans because there was no comic book, commericials, no 24/7 ad campaign to innundate us with the fact that GI Joe was BACK! They relegated the comics to a small comic book company that few have heard of....and these days, the comic book business is so fractured you can't keep a decent distributer bringing in the same line every week! Their failures are simply from lack of Commitment! They don't wanna put their neck on the line, so they make small gestures in obscure ways and wonder why they can't make sales!

'nuff said!

Sonneilon

05-26-2007, 05:27 PM

Ahem. What I didn't put in my original post...

Sigma6 wasn't the overnight success Hasbro wanted. IIRC, there was some sort of shake up at the top and a new GI Joe head came in. Somehow, they got it worked out that 'slow-and-steady' wins the race, not the highest horsepowered entity. So hasbro went back to whatever formula they were using and probably tweaked it.

Keep in mind, the #s that came in for the 2002+ stuff (including VvV) were good. But a bunch of bean counters only see beans and wanted more.

I wouldn't say that S6 fragmented the Joe line much. Hasbro needed to find a way to get to the kids and S6 really worked, believe it or not. It DID alienate the 3.75" fans, yes. But we all knew there was to be a 'hiatus' of 3.75" and it's possible that the S6 era was that hiatus. *shrug*

Also, Hasbro's plan was to put Falcon in Duke's place. That's a fact. Who YOU want to be top kick is an entirely different matter and should be seen as 2 different things. Yes, Hasbro wanted to knock off Duke but the outcry over Optimus dying freaked people out. Right up there w/ the Dixie Chicks dissing the gov't and Michael Jackson liking lil boys.

Now... People are bugged w/ the 25th Anniversary. Why are they going back to the original designs? Why aren't they trying something totally new in terms of themes and whatnot? Well, they did that w/ the 20th Anniversary and it ended up being called GI Joe vs Cobra (w/ t-crotch!). My own feelings say that GI Joe is following the Star Wars and Transformers philosophy. We've seen our fave Joes get a new sculpt/uniform treatment. Just as we've seen, uh, Transformers get all sorts of new versions. SW too, to an extent. Shoot, even He-Man got it and that was by another company! :lol:

I dunno. I'm cool w/ them going backwards for the 25th. They can do whatever they want after they get this out of their system, y'know?

bravo

05-26-2007, 05:58 PM

do u know the reson why. the ideas stop. it the same ,from 3 3/4 all the way to Extreme. again thay repete , 3 3/4 back to Sigma 6. these guys that think there doing there jobs ,wrong. there doing the same back in 94, there doing it again,just with diffrent peoples . hasbro needs to look at this , and treat it as if was like a star wars line. thay need to stay with one thing and make it work. the new 4 inch that are comming out are cool and all , but why repete the same thing over. why not new joes.

Sonneilon

05-26-2007, 06:24 PM

Cuz the point of the 25th was NOT to do new Joes.

But the problem here too, is that, how many 'new' Joes have been embraced by the older fans? For dudes like Crosshair and Blackout, you get, uh, the V-Troops. Link Talbot. Neurotoxin. Razor Claw. Sure, someone like Widescope only got the get-go cuz Shockwave wasn't available at the time.

IF the 25th A can bring in a whole new generation of fans, then Hasbro can try out new things. Like adding new chars and bringing in vehicles. Problem is, each time they do a new series, they literally start over. Which totally sucks. I have NO IDEA how Transformers can do it, other than they have a larger fanbase (just as SW has THE largest fanbase).

Now, if you want to talk about the end of the original ARAH line, I believe current politics and watchdog groups were making their presence known. AND the Hasbro owners (Justin knows their names, it's two brothers. HAS-something or other + BROthers = HASBRO) have their own standards of what GI Joe is. Ever wonder why they used red and blue lasers instead of real bullets? Ever wonder why almost no one is ever shot in the cartoon?

But at least the 25th isn't starting w/ DEF and NeonGlowForce and stuff, right? :P

Sonneilon

05-26-2007, 06:28 PM

oh yeah... NOBODY knows why GI JOe Hasbro messed up the formula. Everyone out there knows that to have a successful toyline, you need a cartoon or movie. And it needs marketing. WHY the duders at GI Joe thought they could get away w/o the normal market strategy is beyond all of us. I agree Bravo. Get the formula and stay with it. (course, the toy analysts say that the toy formula actually changes and GI Joe tends to be 3rd place in terms of priority)

What I don't want to see is what's happened to SW and TF. The multiple confusing lines and whatnot. Classics, Alternators, Movie, This, That, Over THere... SW is just as bad if not worse. But I suppose that's what happens when the SW fans probably outnumber Joe fans 25-1. 50-1? *shrug*

General Jones

05-27-2007, 12:21 PM

I didn't mean that Flint would be demoted from Warrant Officer, just that he would be promoted to second in command of the Joe team under Hawk.

General Scarlett

05-27-2007, 12:34 PM

[QUOTE=ender098]
......That's what I hate the most about using Duke. HE alienates non-white blue eyed aryan america. He looks like a poster boy for Aryan supremacy! The "Perfect" blond haired, blue -eyed master aryan! The GI Joe team is a fairly decent cross setion of America, but by using Duke in EVERY POSTER, EVERY VIDEO COVER, EVERY MAGAZINE Ad, you don't showcase the cultural diversity of GI Joe. And the truth of the Matter is, a First Sergeant would NEVER be in combat with his troops unless it was a MAJOR battle!......
[/QUOTE]

You know, it really alludes me just WHAT you've got against him Frank...........

I wonder, do you feel the same bile against Superman? He's a boy scout too, only with black hair............

The fact of the matter is, Duke is extremely recognizable for the very fact that he is '6 foot 2, eyes of blue'............much in the same way that the 'hotties' you guys all like to look at...........and honestly?? I've seen you give him more 'face time' with your rants than anyone else has with praise!!!

I think you've got a 'secret crush'!!!! :p

(now I'll just wait for you to 'pi$$' all over what I just wrote............ ;) )

maxtype

05-27-2007, 01:13 PM

[Quote=General Scarlett][COLOR=Red]The fact of the matter is, Duke is extremely recognizable for the very fact that he is '6 foot 2, eyes of blue'............much in the same way that the 'hotties' you guys all like to look at...........and honestly?? I've seen you give him more 'face time' with your rants than anyone else has with praise!!!

I think you've got a 'secret crush'!!!! :p

(now I'll just wait for you to 'pi$$' all over what I just wrote............ ;)[/COLOR] )[/QUOTE]

:) :p :D ;) :eek:

lehsreh

05-27-2007, 01:18 PM

[COLOR=Red]yeah we give him time, but everyone likes to talk about things we dont like to get it out. havent you ever talked about someone you dont like? its healthy to get it out, i know i talk about my dislike for the way snake eyes is portrayed now, and my dislike for duke too. also i dont like superman, i dont hate him, but theres really no reason to read his comic unless hes fighting dark side, any other times hes just boring as all heck. i mean hes all but unstopable and he fights a 60yo bald guy. its like the hulk fighting mike tyson. i got into superman there, my bad. [/COLOR]

Urban Saboteur

05-27-2007, 05:12 PM

[QUOTE=bravo]Urban Saboteur, see duke should have been killed off. i dont like the joe. theres nothing to him.and im happy that he lost Scarlett, to snackface. what ever side your on cartoon or comic. the top of the matter is he should have die. i rather have flint or falcon do the job.hasbro should see what there doing.you stay on the same joe.time after time. keep revamping him, and the line will be boring,and fans will have it out,seeing the same thing. he needs to go.[/QUOTE]

[FONT=Arial]Ok, based on what I've read so far your two posts have been you complaining about how duke should of been killed off and you don't like him because he's been the constant face for 20+ years.. the top of the matter as you put it is that he should die.. well.. sorry to really rub this in.. but he wont die.. clearly hasbro thought enough of duke to include him in their plans for the 25th Anniversary.. I don't see a rock n roll figure in there.. or say lady jaye?

Again.. your two posts that you contributed have said you hate the figure/character of duke because theres nothing to him?

I'd like you to elaborate.. nothing in his character?

If your attacking duke's character I'm going to be massively surprised.. he has alot more panache than say a rock n roll or grand slam.. both of which have been redone. Duke is a classy character and the v1 figure was picked as the forefront of the ultimate guide to gi joe!

Just because he's a recogniseable person and hasbro keeps reusing him doesn't mean you should hate him.. if anyone you should be hating the design and marketing people at hasbro!! [/FONT] ;)
Rich

lehsreh

05-27-2007, 05:33 PM

I don't see a rock n roll figure in there.. or say lady jaye?

Rich
[COLOR=Red]
there is a lady jaye figure. i think there should be a rock n roll, but he never got any time because of characters like duke and snake eyes. but i think the few comics he was in with clutch made him a fan favorite.[/COLOR]

bravo

05-27-2007, 06:20 PM

[quote=Urban Saboteur]Ok, based on what I've read so far your two posts have been you complaining about how duke should of been killed off and you don't like him because he's been the constant face for 20+ years.. the top of the matter as you put it is that he should die.. well.. sorry to really rub this in.. but he wont die.. clearly hasbro thought enough of duke to include him in their plans for the 25th Anniversary.. I don't see a rock n roll figure in there.. or say lady jaye?[/quote]

dude lady jay is in the 25th Anniversary. sooner or later duke will be gone. it seems that just about every one here dont like duke. and why compare rock n roll to duke. you got to be kidding me. rock n roll will make monkey meat out of duke.
there a hell of a lot more to roll and other joes. then duke.
and as for the ultimate guide to gi joe. with duke on the cover. the book is cool and all that. the book would have been 10 more better with flint on the cover.
hasbro will see it,sooner or later. keep putting ths :eek: in every thing.the line will die again and again till thay see it. like i said before thay need to treat the line like star wars.

ender098

05-27-2007, 06:39 PM

[QUOTE=General Scarlett]You know, it really alludes me just WHAT you've got against him Frank...........

I wonder, do you feel the same bile against Superman? He's a boy scout too, only with black hair............

The fact of the matter is, Duke is extremely recognizable for the very fact that he is '6 foot 2, eyes of blue'............much in the same way that the 'hotties' you guys all like to look at...........and honestly?? I've seen you give him more 'face time' with your rants than anyone else has with praise!!!

I think you've got a 'secret crush'!!!! :p

(now I'll just wait for you to 'pi$$' all over what I just wrote............ ;) )[/QUOTE]

Yes, I tend to take offense to "pretty boys". I can't stand Jeff Gordon, Oscar De LaHoya, Grant Hill, Kevin Costner or any of the other "Poster boys". Why? Because you have people who are better in the sport, comic, team etc that work harder and are all around better than these guys, but the press loves them because of the pretty faces! I hate the politics of press. We sold the american dream down the toilet with these guys. I mean, why work your @$$ off being the best at what you do when a mediocre knock off will grab all the attention because he's a pretty face! I never liked Superman because he only has ONE weakness...Kryptonite. Yet every enemy he comes up against knows this and never defeats him. I prefer guys like the Punisher and Batman, vigalantes who are just human.

And FYI, I never was about the tall Blonds. I prefer chicks like Jeanne Garafalo, Selma Hyack or Dana Delaney. I wouldn't touch Paris Hilton with my ten foot pole! LOL!

It's not that I don't like Duke as a Character, I just hate him being the "posterboy" for GI Joe.

.

bravo

05-27-2007, 06:50 PM

(ender098)I never liked Superman because he only has ONE weakness...Kryptonite. Yet every enemy he comes up against knows this and never defeats him. I prefer guys like the Punisher and Batman, vigalantes who are just human.

ender super man die in the hands of doomsday. even thou he came back. and as for Punisher and Batman, these guys rock. and lets not for get nick furry.

lehsreh

05-27-2007, 06:55 PM

[QUOTE=ender098]Yes, I tend to take offense to "pretty boys". I can't stand Jeff Gordon, Oscar De LaHoya, Grant Hill, Kevin Costner or any of the other "Poster boys". Why? Because you have people who are better in the sport, comic, team etc that work harder and are all around better than these guys, but the press loves them because of the pretty faces! I hate the politics of press. I mean, why work your @$$ off being the best at what you do when a mediocre knock off will grab all the attention because he's a pretty face!
I never was about the tall Blonds. I prefer chicks like Jeanne Garafalo, Selma Hyack or Dana Delaney. I wouldn't touch Paris Hilton with my ten foot pole! LOL!
It's not that I don't like Duke as a Character, I just hate him being the "posterboy" for GI Joe.

.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Red]
wow, i agree with everything you just said, and i mean everything from jeff gordon to paris hilton (hate them darn skinny chicks who act like food is an enemy). people like the ones mentioned get the fame because its embedded into our minds that tall underweight blonds are what we are supposed to think is attractive. girls think that looking like the hilton of any other unhealthy girl is what boys like. and yes it is unhealthy, also studies have shown that one a scale from 1 to 10 girls see themselves as a 7 in the weight class. their actually around 5, they think guys like a 3 and want to get to a 4, when guys like a 6.and this is not my opinion, it is a psychological fact. i havent saw many girls these days who want the blond poster boy either, everyone knows girls dont like the goodguy, never really have and never will. thats why i will always like the gritty characters like letherneck, gung-ho and beach head, and the odd funny guy like jackie chan and quick kick. take flint, i hated him in the toons because he was like duke, just with dark hair. now, with his kill all tude and scar, hes my fave character in the comics.[/COLOR]

Urban Saboteur

05-27-2007, 07:28 PM

[FONT=Arial]You also have to account that looks sell,
this is another reason why rock n roll or armadillo or grunt aren't the poster boys of G.I.JOE ;)
As for lady jaye being in the 25th Anniversary.. I dunno.. i didn't see her mentioned but if she is i could think of probably 5 or 10 other figures/characters more deserving to go in there..

like it or lump it duke will be around for a while.. no matter what type of complaints you have about him.. there must be more people that like him than hate him.. otherwise nobody would buy him and he'd drop out of the order of core characters.

Duke is a popular character and he's a leader and he's classy.. so go ahead hate all you want on him.. [/FONT] ;)
Rich

bravo

05-27-2007, 07:37 PM

[QUOTE=Urban Saboteur][FONT=Arial]You also have to account that looks sell,
this is another reason why rock n roll or armadillo or grunt aren't the poster boys of G.I.JOE ;)
As for lady jaye being in the 25th Anniversary.. I dunno.. i didn't see her mentioned but if she is i could think of probably 5 or 10 other figures/characters more deserving to go in there..

like it or lump it duke will be around for a while.. no matter what type of complaints you have about him.. there must be more people that like him than hate him.. otherwise nobody would buy him and he'd drop out of the order of core characters.

Duke is a popular character and he's a leader and he's classy.. so go ahead hate all you want on him.. [/FONT] ;)
Rich[/QUOTE]

rich,Duke is a popular character and he's a leader and he's classy, you are out of your mind, the only reson a lot of fans buy him ,hes part of the collection. dukes a pertty boy. thats why he made it so far.ok i can see that, and for the joes that arnt poster boys ,thoese are the heros. not pretty boy duke, and roll can still kick his :eek:

General Scarlett

05-27-2007, 07:39 PM

[COLOR=DarkRed]Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, [COLOR=Blue]SUPERMAN[/COLOR], Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke,[/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue]SUPERMAN, SUPERMAN[/COLOR], [COLOR=DarkRed]Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]SUPERMAN[/COLOR], [COLOR=DarkRed]Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]SUPERMAN, SUPERMAN[/COLOR],[COLOR=DarkRed] Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]SUPERMAN[/COLOR], [COLOR=DarkRed]Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]SUPERMAN, SUPERMAN[/COLOR], [COLOR=DarkRed]Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]SUPERMAN[/COLOR], [COLOR=DarkRed]Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]SUPERMAN, SUPERMAN[/COLOR], [COLOR=DarkRed]Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]SUPERMAN[/COLOR], [COLOR=DarkRed]Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke[/COLOR], [COLOR=Blue]SUPERMAN, SUPERMAN[/COLOR], Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, [COLOR=Blue]SUPERMAN[/COLOR], Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, [COLOR=Red]SUPERMAN, SUPERMAN[/COLOR], Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, [COLOR=Blue]SUPERMAN[/COLOR], Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, [COLOR=Blue]SUPERMAN, SUPERMAN[/COLOR],Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, [COLOR=Blue]SUPERMAN[/COLOR], Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, [COLOR=Blue]SUPERMAN, SUPERMAN[/COLOR]...................................

Sonneilon

05-27-2007, 07:43 PM

I don't see hasbro getting rid of Duke anytime soon. He's pretty much become the icon of GI Joe and man, to switch it up would be like trying to pull a GI Joe Extreme or DiC GI Joe again.

General Scarlett

05-27-2007, 07:44 PM

[QUOTE=ender098]
And FYI, I never was about the tall Blonds. I prefer chicks like Jeanne Garafalo, Selma Hyack or Dana Delaney. I wouldn't touch Paris Hilton with my ten foot pole! LOL!
[/QUOTE]

Odd, I NEVER mentioned once in my post that you guys were into 'tall blondes' or 'P**** H*****'....................I just generalized them as 'hotties'.............I let you all decide what YOUR PERSONAL determination was.................

That you would automatically go to 'tall blondes' and the 'PH' card, now THAT'S rather interesting..............

And 'FYI'?? DO NOT go after Superman!! I'm serious............ :mad:

General Scarlett

05-27-2007, 07:49 PM

[QUOTE=ender098]

It's not that I don't like Duke as a Character, I just hate him being the "posterboy" for GI Joe.

.[/QUOTE]

And just out of curiousity Frank, HOW MANY Duke's do you have in your collection????? :confused: I mean, I know you don't USE him in your dios and pics, but still...............with your massive collection and 'noncommittal' attitude toward this character, I'm just curious if you bought all 5,387,451,902 versions????????

lehsreh

05-27-2007, 07:49 PM

[COLOR=Red]this is actually becoming kinda childish. they wont kill duke, but i will never like him. i got 2 when VvV came out but it was because he was in a 2 pack, and then i did a custom with him, but i do have pretty big plans for duke in my joe verse. i hate him like some, then again theres some who love him, maybe we should do a vote, but agree to disagree. just like me still thinking that superman sux. but i love smallville...[/COLOR]

bravo

05-27-2007, 08:17 PM

[QUOTE=lehsreh][COLOR=Red]this is actually becoming kinda childish. they wont kill duke, but i will never like him. i got 2 when VvV came out but it was because he was in a 2 pack, and then i did a custom with him, but i do have pretty big plans for duke in my joe verse. i hate him like some, then again theres some who love him, maybe we should do a vote, but agree to disagree. just like me still thinking that superman sux. but i love smallville...[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

maybe we should do a vote, but agree to disagree.

ok ill start the vote poll in a new thread. im wondering why superman got in this.
but any way thanks lehsreh.

bravo

05-27-2007, 08:21 PM

lehsreh stared the poll.

Urban Saboteur

05-27-2007, 08:23 PM

[QUOTE=bravo]lehsreh stared the poll.[/QUOTE]

[FONT=Arial]No he didnt stared it.. he started it .. but apparently i'm out of my mind for liking a likeable GIJOE icon.. :rolleyes:
Whatever.. [/FONT]
Rich

General Scarlett

05-27-2007, 08:26 PM

[SIZE=3]Alright everyone.......................GO TO YOUR CORNERS!!!!![/SIZE]

We're arguing about T-O-Y-S!!!

And I will not tolerate berating someone for their spelling!!! Completely uncalled for!!!

This needs to stop now, before it becomes overtly ridiculous.............(duh!)

The fact is, whether you love or hate certain characters, you embrace them as a part of the whole...........and in the end, that's all that truly matters.

maxtype

05-27-2007, 08:29 PM

:p I was wondrin' HOW much longer our Moderatrix was gonna let this one run........ :p

Urban Saboteur

05-27-2007, 08:31 PM

[FONT=Arial]This isn't ridiculous.. they tried to end a debate by taking a vote. :confused:

And I'd like to point your attention to your previous thread about thinking before you type.. if these people done this they wouldnt make so many typo's would they? [/FONT] :confused:
Rich

lehsreh

05-27-2007, 08:40 PM

[QUOTE=Urban Saboteur][FONT=Arial]This isn't ridiculous.. they tried to end a debate by taking a vote. :confused:

And I'd like to point your attention to your previous thread about thinking before you type.. if these people done this they wouldnt make so many typo's would they? [/FONT] :confused:
Rich[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Red]
were all acting lil kids fighting over toys and your pointing out typos??? lol, plz . an come on scar, why stop the vote? you were in on the arguing too.[/COLOR]

Urban Saboteur

05-27-2007, 08:46 PM

[FONT=Arial]So in summary when someone attacks a gi joe legend and icon of the line in future I should just what exactly. Agree and hate on someone I dont because the thread will be locked down? Agree because if I don't nobody will like me. That Sounds more like high school?

Just because I defended a character you get all jezzy and cast it to a vote? Also either you or bravo failed to answer my posts. I guess I know who's a kid and whos the adult here.[/FONT]

General Scarlett

05-27-2007, 08:51 PM

[QUOTE=lehsreh][COLOR=Red]
were all acting lil kids fighting over toys and your pointing out typos??? lol, plz . an come on scar, why stop the vote? you were in on the arguing too.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

I stopped the 'vote' because it was redundant.............the entire argument was, is and will be contained in this thread..........there's no reason to start another one about it..............

And I'm not 'arguing', I'm 'defending'...............there's a whole world of difference in those two words.......... ;)

lehsreh

05-27-2007, 09:40 PM

[QUOTE=General Scarlett]
And I'm not 'arguing', I'm 'defending'...............there's a whole world of difference in those two words.......... ;)[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Red]
arguing starts out as defending something we believe in against something someone else believes to be. but i really dont see why we cant talk about who we like and who we dont like without starting about typos. i make mistakes like crazy, my browser shows me that i didnt put the ' in didn't, but i dont care to fix it. i just come on here to read some great stories and see what some of the other great joe fans have going on in their joe verse. if i like it or dont, i really dont care, i like what they do and what they believe in, and thats G.I. Joe. even for me, a duke hater, i would still rather watch a cartoon or read a comic with duke in it then anything else they put it against that didnt have anything to do with G.I. Joe. i think some people on here may need to do a lil full contact sport, it really takes the edge off and nothing bothers you nearly as much as it would, relieve the stress in a healthy beneficial way, lol.[/COLOR]

Sonneilon

05-27-2007, 10:40 PM

Jeez you guys. I was wondering how to handle this one.

This is how I'm seeing it.

You either love or hate Duke. That's a personal decision.

Mixing it up with fact of what Hasbro/Sunbow/the big wigs wanted with Duke, that's a different bag. I've already stated Hasbro's stance as well as the Big 3's stance on the concept of Core. This discussion could easily be about Destro, Cobra COmmander and Snake Eyes.

Everyone has their right to hate or love the 1st Sgt of GI Joe. I'm neutral and in fact, I can deal with him. His S6 characterization works for me.

Apparently, Duke is a pretty touchy subject. The way I see it, let Duke be whatever you want him to be in your 'verse. DO NOT trash Hasbro for making him the icon of GI Joe. Stop whining that Hasbro should have killed him off cuz it ain't gonna happen.

Whether you like it or not, Duke is here to stay. HOWEVER, start a Duke Hate club, get big and well-known and maybe Hasbro will create a stupid git like Link Talbot to lead GI Joe instead. Be careful what you wish for.

Self-Modifier

05-28-2007, 01:58 AM

Urgh. This is why I learned never to get involved in these "debates." They always degenerate into a ridiculous argument about why people hate a character that was, in all honestly, pretty evenly represented back in the old days. Sure, he was a super-main character on the TV show, but he was a bit-player in the comics! It all evens out, so let's just let it be. If you don't like him that's fine, but don't try to change other people's minds. It's not going to happen!

Those of you that hate him-- Fine, you obviously won't alter your opinion, just as those of us who are fans of the guy won't either. Such is the nature of Duke.

And even though I don't want to get involved, I would like to at least voice my feelings on the character. Call me a hypocrite if you like for condemning this argument then adding to it, but I just want to get my opinions out there so everyone knows where I'm coming from.

The following is a cut & paste job that I put in a Target Range: Duke reply thread about a year ago, and it was originally taken from a post I'd made on the JoeCustoms boards several months before that.

[quote="The Self-Modifier on JoeCustoms' message board"]
He's my favorite Joe. I didn't discover the comic book till years after the cartoon, so as far as I was concerned, going by the show, Duke was the G.I. Joe leader, and Hawk was the Johnny-come-lately. I've sometimes wondered why I liked him so much-- I guess it comes down to how all-around cool he was in the original mini-series, and the fact that his voice was supplied in a take-charge, no-nonsense manner by Michael Bell, the first voice actor I learned to recognize, even at age 7, in all sorts of cartoons (Bell also played my second-favorite Autobot, Prowl).

When I was a kid, I also resented Flint for stealing the limelight from Duke. I must've missed all the Duke episodes, of which I've learned from the DVDs there were many, because my childhood memories had Flint as the main character in pretty much every single episode I ever saw. I've since learned to appreciate Flint almost as much as Duke (and I especially like when the two of them team up, though that seldom happened in either the show or the comics), but I still don't like Hawk too much. As far as I'm concerned, he should sit behind a desk while Duke leads the team on field missions.[/quote]

[Quote="The Self-Modifier on JoeCustoms' message board"]
Most people seem to dislike Duke due to the overexposure factor. It's true that Hasbro has tried to make him Mr. G.I. Joe, and that he is, along with Snake-Eyes, the co-poster child of the brand.

My observation is that being a Transformers fan, I seldom see people resent Optimus Prime for the same reason. Prime is just as overexposed--if not more so--as Duke (he appeared in 64 of the first 65 cartoon episodes!). He's also just as much of a "super hero". Are Transformers fans a more accepting group? I guess it has a lot to do with the fact that Prime never came in and "usurped" the leadership role from anyone else-- but can that be the only reason? Other than that factor, they're very much alike, and yet only one seems to be so reviled among the fandom.[/quote]

And then when someone said this:
[Quote="JoeCustoms' message board"]
I never really cared all that much for him in the toon because he always struck me as one sided and boring. The guy didn't have any flaws. He was too perfect. He fit the stereotyped blonde haired, blue eyed hero. Especially in the first miniseries. Football hero. Althlete. Helped those weaker than him. Meh, that's not a character. That's a cardboard cutout.[/quote]

I replied thusly:

[Quote="The Self-Modifier on JoeCustoms' message board"]
You just nailed on the head why I like him so much. There are a lot of folks out there, myself included, who love characters like this, which is why the likes of Captain America and Superman have endured for 60+ years. In fact, your description of Duke above could be substituted for a description of Captain America with no words changed.[/quote]

lehsreh

05-28-2007, 07:25 AM

[COLOR=Red]mmm, i never liked Optimus Prime, i hated him for the same reason. it wasnt until he got killed and rodimus took over that i wanted him back. but only because rodimus sucked. i didnt like prime always being the one to ssave everyone and the only one who could stand up to actually anyone. every other autobot was a whipping boy. just got to ask one question here, who likes cyclops from the x-men?[/COLOR]

ender098

05-28-2007, 07:57 AM

[QUOTE=Urban Saboteur][font=Arial]You also have to account that looks sell,
this is another reason why rock n roll or armadillo or grunt aren't the poster boys of G.I.JOE ;)
[/font][/QUOTE]

Looks sell, that's true, but so does reality television, Trash journalism and ignorant pathetic comedies that lack any true comsdic value, Gansta Rap music and cigarettes, but that DOESN'T mean I should just give up and let this nation slide from mediocrity to total ignorance without saying something and possibly trying to change it.

It's been said a million times in this thread that "Pretty boy" Duke is Hasbro's Golden boy and he won't die, won't change, and Hasbro will never give him up as the poster boys, but that doesn't mean I have to sit here and like it. And I realize that even if I went on a mad killing spree it wouldn't change Hasbro's mind. Hell, when has anything true FANS wanted effected Hasbro? If they listened to their fans, they would have a thriving GI Joe line. (Sorry Joe fans, can't be bothered! Trying to Ride the Spiderman/ Pirates of the Carribean movies popularity until it dries up!!)

[QUOTE=General Scarlett]And just out of curiousity Frank, HOW MANY Duke's do you have in your collection????? :confused: I mean, I know you don't USE him in your dios and pics, but still...............with your massive collection and 'noncommittal' attitude toward this character, I'm just curious if you bought all 5,387,451,902 versions????????[/QUOTE]

I have about 17 Dukes. But that doesn't say much. I also have the Cobra-la figures, Raptor, Crystal Ball, Razor troopers, Ice Cream Soldier and others that I will never use in Dios. It's not that I won't use Duke in a Dio, or that I hate duke, I just don't like Duke being the "Out Front" poster child. You were in the Military. How many times Was your First Sergeant in the Advanced Party? How many times did the First Sergeant stay out in the field the whole time during any Exercise? First Sergeants usually sit in the COC and run s**t from behind the lines. It's an office billet. If anyone should be the poster child it should be Stalker. He's been on more missions and seen more crap than Duke could ever HOPE to!

Sonneilon

05-28-2007, 08:18 AM

Cyclops was cool! I'd choose him over Storm!

Self-Modifier

05-28-2007, 12:04 PM

[QUOTE=lehsreh][COLOR=Red]just got to ask one question here, who likes cyclops from the x-men?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Cyclops is not only my favorite X-Man, he's my #3 favorite Marvel super hero!

(1 and 2 are Spider-Man and-- Captain America, Marvel's version of Duke!)

G.I.*Jock

05-28-2007, 12:20 PM

This is kinda getting farcical... Poster boys etc... It's petty.

Fair enough, Duke has had a lot of attention, as his Snake Eyes... But what about Flint and Shipwreck? The limelight the Sarge often got in the toon?

No one is mentioning them.

Love them or hate them... They are all important characters in Joe mythos, in fact most of them are, in some way or another... Between comics, toons and filecards we have always had insight into every individuals character and that's a true beauty of this toy line we collect... Every character has a character... There is no two dimensional or boring characters, none I've come across anyway... I can't even think of many characters who seem the same. Every Character has some kind of unique feature about them.

For someone to say Duke is a poster boy and not a hero strikes me as just plain petty. If someone says G.I. Joe, what comes into your head first? The image of Duke? I'd imagine not somehow... Where is the poster boy thing coming from anyway? The fact Duke has blonde hair and blue eyes? Let's hope it isn't as stereotypical as that... By the way, for the record I have black hair and brown eyes. It might be because Rich mentioned Duke as being on the front of a collectors guide... So what? He's at the top of this page too? Why? Because he is a huge player in the Joe world... Like Wolverine is to the X-men... I don't ever remember Duke screwing over everyone else though to get the limelight... Unlike Wolverine, that goes for comics, cartoons and film versions of both Joe and X-men. Despite Wolvie being the man in the X-men, which I don't like, I don't hate Wolverine for it. God knows... I should... X3 was a disaster, I turned it off after 40 minutes or so!

Why is Wolverine so popular? His character... Pure bad @$$! Just like Snake Eyes... Who just so happens to be popular in the Joe world... Just like Duke? Yup... I'd say Duke was bad @$$ too...

No matter how many men there is in anything... Joe, X-men or even Lost... There are always a select few who get more exposure... Usually because they are quite quirky and unique or bad @$$, etc. Let's not hate these characters for that?

Every one is entitled to an opinion, sure they are. You've probably just read mine. But your opinions seem a bit petty... C'mon guys, back them up with decent arguments... Please don't think I'm having a go, I'm not. I want to understand where you are coming from with this?

Perhaps the bottom line is this... Duke is popular... For reasons far beyond those which some people are suggesting...

Dave :D

bravo

05-28-2007, 02:04 PM

[QUOTE=G.I.*Jock]This is kinda getting farcical... Poster boys etc... It's petty.

Fair enough, Duke has had a lot of attention, as his Snake Eyes... But what about Flint and Shipwreck? The limelight the Sarge often got in the toon?

No one is mentioning them.

Love them or hate them... They are all important characters in Joe mythos, in fact most of them are, in some way or another... Between comics, toons and filecards we have always had insight into every individuals character and that's a true beauty of this toy line we collect... Every character has a character... There is no two dimensional or boring characters, none I've come across anyway... I can't even think of many characters who seem the same. Every Character has some kind of unique feature about them.[/quote]

ok this is about duke. not the others

General Scarlett

05-28-2007, 02:13 PM

However, it very well could be about all the 'popular' Joes..........and in terms of 'popularity', Snake Eyes is the media ho@r of the entire line...........not Duke........

bravo

05-28-2007, 02:18 PM

ok i didnt think this was going out of control. i may have gone too far.
but you know what. duke should have die. i dont like him.
you know what. i just may start a i hate duke club. :D thanks Sonneilon
duke needs to go.

bravo

05-28-2007, 02:20 PM

[QUOTE=General Scarlett]However, it very well could be about all the 'popular' Joes..........and in terms of 'popularity', Snake Eyes is the media ho@r of the entire line...........not Duke........[/QUOTE]

i can with stan old snakeface. Scarlett. terms of 'popularity', poster boy duke is not.

Urban Saboteur

05-28-2007, 04:54 PM

[QUOTE=bravo]ok i didnt think this was going out of control. i may have gone too far.
but you know what. duke should have die. i dont like him.
you know what. i just may start a i hate duke club. :D thanks Sonneilon
duke needs to go.[/QUOTE]

[FONT=Arial]Vous monsieur, êtes ce qui est connu en tant qu'antagoniste. Je me lèverai au-dessus de ceci en ne disant rien en outre plus sur la matière.[/FONT] ;)

bravo

05-28-2007, 05:28 PM

[QUOTE=Urban Saboteur][FONT=Arial]Vous monsieur, êtes ce qui est connu en tant qu'antagoniste. Je me lèverai au-dessus de ceci en ne disant rien en outre plus sur la matière.[/FONT] ;)[/QUOTE]

english

General Scarlett

05-28-2007, 05:31 PM

Guys? You are all starting to tread on thin ice...............just letting you know......

Urban Saboteur

05-28-2007, 05:37 PM

[QUOTE=bravo]english[/QUOTE]

[FONT=Arial]Really Bravo.. you want a translation? :o I'm afraid I can't.. you see .. I don't help out people who slander heroes and Icons of GIJOE..
I guess you've learned not to burn you bridges.. oh and btw...

Vous aimerez ma gamme de cible avez demain une conjecture que je mets en lumière :D
[/FONT] ;)

maxtype

05-28-2007, 06:11 PM

Guys-you DO know this is running to SEVEN PAGES over an action figure,right?? If you don't like a figure-don't buy him/her/it.............if the toy comes in a multi-pack you want,give the figure you DON'T want to a child..............TOYS are NOT worth heartburn,okay?? Thank you

lehsreh

05-28-2007, 06:28 PM

[QUOTE=Urban Saboteur][FONT=Arial]Really Bravo.. you want a translation? :o I'm afraid I can't.. you see .. I don't help out people who slander heroes and Icons of GIJOE..
I guess you've learned not to burn you bridges.. oh and btw...

Vous aimerez ma gamme de cible avez demain une conjecture que je mets en lumière :D
[/FONT] ;)[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=Red]
and you spoke of typos, thats childish. if we disagree, at least let people know what you are saying so they can reply. its like a kid saying something under their breath and no repeating it and then laughing. here let me try this saboteur. i ______ _____ and i _____ _____ ______ ______. mmm, yeah, i feel childish.[/COLOR]

General Scarlett

05-28-2007, 06:29 PM

Rich, you need to S-T-O-P..............I know what your writing and while you might be trying to be 'funny', other's who do not understand the language are only going to be aggravated...............and as for everyone else involved in this debacle.........

[SIZE=3]Everyone needs to CHILL OUT!!!!! I mean it!!!![/SIZE]

You either love Duke or hate Duke or just remain indifferent..........but agree to disagree? Kapish????

lehsreh

05-28-2007, 06:48 PM

[COLOR=Red]i dont see why everyone gets mad just because someone hates a character they like anyway. heck, quick kick is my fave joe, most people dont even acknowledge him, cyclops is my all time fave hero, most people talk about him like hes a dog. i dont get mad, its just the way they feel, like i hate some of their fave characters. no matter how much you talk down to someone YOU ARE NOT going to change their minds. there are people on here who like duke and snakes, there are people on here who do not. its ok to say if you do or do not, and say why and even to tell just how much you loath or love them. to argue back and forth and try to change the others mind just isnt going to work. i have spoke my opinion on in this as much as anyone i know, but ive never tried to say it in a way as to defend and/or change anyone or anything.look at scarlett, she loves duke, i hate him, but weve never said anything toward one another. i say kill this thread before it gets anymore out of hand [/COLOR]

General Scarlett

05-28-2007, 07:42 PM

Ok, so here's a few words and their definitions........

The definition of [SIZE=2]Love[/SIZE] is the subject of considerable debate, enduring speculation and thoughtful introspection. Some tackle the difficulty of finding a universal definition for love by classifying it into types, such as passionate love, romantic love, and committed love. However, some of these types of love can be generalized into the category of sexual attraction. In ordinary use, love usually refers to interpersonal love, an experience felt by a person for another person. Love often involves caring for or identifying with a person or thing, including oneself (cf. narcissism). Dictionaries tend to define love as deep affection or fondness. In colloquial use, according to polled opinion, the most favored definitions of love involve altruism, selflessness, friendship, union, family, and bonding or connecting with another.

[SIZE=2]Hatred [/SIZE] is an emotion of intense revulsion, distaste, enmity, or antipathy for a person, thing, or phenomenon, generally attributed to a desire to avoid, restrict, remove, or destroy the hated object. Hatred is also among the most common emotions that humans experience.[citation needed] It can be based on fear of an object or past negative consequences of dealing with that object. Hatred is often described as the opposite of love or friendship; others, such as Elie Wiesel, consider the opposite of love to be indifference. People may feel conflicting and complicated emotions or thoughts involving hate, as in a love-hate relationship.

Often the verb "to hate" is used casually to describe things one merely dislikes, such as a particular style of architecture, a certain climate, one's job, some particular food, or people who claim to hate something when they in fact merely dislike it.

"Hatred" is also used to describe feelings of prejudice, bigotry or condemnation (see shunning) against a person, or a group of people, such as racism, and intense religious or political prejudice. The term hate crime is used to designate crimes committed out of hatred in this sense.

[SIZE=2]Ambivalence[/SIZE] is a state of having emotions in contradiction, when those emotions are related to the same object, idea or person (for example, feeling both love and hatred for someone or something). The term is also commonly used to refer to situations where 'mixed feelings' of a more general sort are experienced or where a person feels uncertainty or indecisiveness concerning something.

[SIZE=2]Jealousy [/SIZE] typically refers to the thoughts, feelings, and behaviors that occur when a person believes a valued relationship is being threatened by a rival. This rival may have no knowledge of threatening the relationship.

The word stems from the French jalousie, formed from jaloux (jealous), and further from Low Latin zelosus (full of zeal), and from the Greek word for "ardour, zeal" (with a root connoting "to boil, ferment"; or "yeast"). Jealousy is a familiar experience in human relationships. It has been reported in every culture and in many forms where researchers have looked. It has been observed in infants as young as 5-6 months old and in adults over 65 years old.

[SIZE=2]The word "jealousy" is frequently used to describe what is more properly envy, fixation on what someone else has.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]The moral of the story is, in order to have 'HATE' one must initially have 'LOVE'........and the 'AMBIVALENCE' that some carry is a direct product of 'JEALOUSY'................... ;) [/SIZE]

maxtype

05-28-2007, 08:27 PM

You know,everybody-I always IDENTIFIED with Duke,Flint,Hawk.............I wanted to be like them.....................Snake-Eyes-I like him,but it's hard to identify with a Ninja Master-and I don't want to be disfigured................ :p

It was specifically stated in 'The MASS Device' that Duke always stood up for the younger and weaker-what a terrible way to be!

Truthfully,everyone-I'm 34 now..............and you can try to make the world a better place,or you can try to make it worse.............no-one is gonna thank you,either way.........

Sonneilon

05-28-2007, 09:04 PM

PLAY NICE! Listen to Auntie GenScar!!!

bravo

05-28-2007, 09:53 PM

[QUOTE=Urban Saboteur][FONT=Arial]Really Bravo.. you want a translation? :o I'm afraid I can't.. you see .. I don't help out people who slander heroes and Icons of GIJOE..
I guess you've learned not to burn you bridges.. oh and btw...

Vous aimerez ma gamme de cible avez demain une conjecture que je mets en lumière :D
[/FONT] ;)[/QUOTE]

i want to know what you said. look im sorry that i dont like posterboy duke.
all im saying is theres way too many of him. and i dont like when people talk in diffrent words. if you like him fine. i dont. G.I.Joe been around for a long time. we just need change. a better leader. not duke. but i still want to know what you said.

Self-Modifier

05-28-2007, 09:54 PM

You know, I was just thinking... This is, as far as I can recall, this site's very first Duke Debate. Every Joe site has had at least one, after all.

I guess this means our little JoeDios is finally all grown up...

;)

bravo

05-28-2007, 09:56 PM

:[QUOTE=Self-Modifier]You know, I was just thinking... This is, as far as I can recall, this site's very first Duke Debate. Every Joe site has had at least one, after all.

I guess this means our little JoeDios is finally all grown up...

;)[/QUOTE]

:cool:

ender098

05-30-2007, 08:25 AM

Ok, does this debate have to get to who got more underoos made with his face on them in the '80's before we see how ridiculous it is getting? LOL!

Can we all agree on this;

1.) Hasbro has Duke engrained in the public Psyche as "GI Joe", reguardless of whether we like or hate him, thus, he's not goin away? ( And...Even though Joe Colton is Technically "GI Joe").

2.) A First Sergeant is the ENLISTED advisor to the Commanding Officer, not the Second in Command (that is Technically the XO) so if Duke WERE to buy it, he would need an Enlisted man to step up into his billet! (I think Stalker should become first Shirt, but that's MY OPINION.) ?

3.) Love him or hate him, Duke is (Like Snake Eyes) OVER EXPOSED.?

Can we agree on that much, at least? LOL!

You're all entitled to your opinions....no matter how wrong you all may be!
;)

(liked that Parting shot...didn't cha?)

bravo

05-30-2007, 02:39 PM

[QUOTE=ender098]Ok, does this debate have to get to who got more underoos made with his face on them in the '80's before we see how ridiculous it is getting? LOL!

Can we all agree on this;

1.) Hasbro has Duke engrained in the public Psyche as "GI Joe", reguardless of whether we like or hate him, thus, he's not goin away? ( And...Even though Joe Colton is Technically "GI Joe").

2.) A First Sergeant is the ENLISTED advisor to the Commanding Officer, not the Second in Command (that is Technically the XO) so if Duke WERE to buy it, he would need an Enlisted man to step up into his billet! (I think Stalker should become first Shirt, but that's MY OPINION.) ?

3.) Love him or hate him, Duke is (Like Snake Eyes) OVER EXPOSED.?

Can we agree on that much, at least? LOL!

You're all entitled to your opinions....no matter how wrong you all may be!
;)

(liked that Parting shot...didn't cha?)[/QUOTE]

agree . Duke is (Like Snake Eyes) OVER EXPOSED.?
but you know something, it was one hell of a battle. :D